Oolite Bulletins

Thank you everyone for your contribution and insight. You've provided me with much food for thought. I get the sense that Oolite isn't so much considered a remake or a tribute (as myself and my "journo" peers would recognise it), but as a natural and very contemporary continuation of Elite, with OXPs being the purest form of DLC.... so much so that the question over Elite 4 doesn't seem to matter too much.

But let's not go down that avenue. I'm sure "Braben No. 4" has been debated endlessly across these boards already and for many of us life's too short to roast that old chestnut.

Geraldine wrote:

Zptr wrote:

So, to start, why does Elite still matter?

Want a reason? Read these http://www.wagar.org.uk/?page_id=20

Thank you. I was aware of the first one but not of the others. I've been out of the loop longer than I thought.

Now where did I put my Kindle...

For me, it mattered for the most ugliest of reasons. Envy.

I had a C64, my best friend had an Atari 800......and Star Raiders. GOD!!! I loved that game, and there was abosolutely NOTHING on the C64 that could compete.

I can't remember exactly when I picked it up. I know I saw it at some software store, and intially being underwhelmed. I mean who is this "Firebird" software anyway? Certainly not a real game house like Broderbund, Epyx, or the promising new upstart if not a bit pretentious....Electronic Arts.

I Turned over the box and my eyes went wide...... Look at that cockpit!!!! A scanner that showed relative position above and below your ship!!! Oh my god.... Wireframe graphics with real 3 dimensional ships.... I immediately bought the game.

I opened the box, and the spell was already being woven. Inside was a keyboard overlay that conveniently fit over my keyboard. A small book called the Dark Wheel which explained some of the tech and gave the universe some incredible depth.

Wait a tick. What's this plastic thing? The disk was not copy protected so you could make as many "backup disks" as you wanted, but god forgive you lose that plastic thing. It was some sort of prism refraction device that changed the mismash on the screen to a two letter code you had to enter to start the game. Ingenious!!!

Thus began my long love afair with Elite. I had a ship, a galaxy (8 of them in fact), and some coin. I could roam anywhere and started documenting prices at various systems. I found out amazing milk runs and some dangerous ones. Upgraded to larger cargo bays, Fuel Scoops, and the all important ECM and Military Lasers.

Elite stayed with me for awhile. With every new computer system I bought, PC, Amiga, etc... I made sure I repurchased the game. The PC version and Amiga Version with it's shaded graphics looked better that the wireframes on the C64, but nothing compares to that initial experience.

Now with Oolite the adventure continues. The new graphics don't overshadow the game like some other competitors efforts did, but simply breathe new life into the game.

Someone else mentioned it and it bears repeating, Elite still matters because I have the freedom to engage my imagination to add richness and texture to the framework provided by the game designers. I am not relying solely on someone elses "vision". Elite provides the location, I provide the characters and story lines.

Elite/Oolite gives just enough game mechanics to be believable on the one hand and open to interpretation/imagination on the other hand so that the game happens in my head. At the same time other players know what I am talking about when I mention this guy in a Cobra mk 1 who was ambushed by some thugs enroute to Leesti and whom I could save because I received his distress call. Or whom I ignored because I had to deliver goods on contract and was just in time. Or whom I shot to pieces and collected his cargo.

It is a whole world that Elite/Oolite gives me and it doesn't put me on rails nor restrict me in any way that doesn't feel believable. I don't know any other game like it.

Elite came with my very first computer and hit me like a ton of bricks! I have played Elite inside and out till I would see revovling skies in my dreams. It is indeed the sense of immersion and exploration that makes it so addictive. Then Oolite came along, and is even better, you get to do your stuff untill; Surprise a Mission! Sometimes gameplay is relaxing, and sometimes it is frantic. In my opinion Oolite can hold its own amidst the commercial games.

Lso; I play with the keyboard

Greetz,
Onno.

onno256 wrote:

I have played Elite inside and out till I would see revovling skies in my dreams.

I know what you're talking about.

I remember I was playing Archimedes Elite at the time I learned how to drive a car. And I also remember thinking to myself: "This is not Elite, I cannot just crash through that slow vehicle in front of me without consequences."

I'm only 24 but I've been playing Elite since I was 5, lol, my Dad played it when he was a teenager which is how I came across it. I tried to play Frontier but it just didn't compare. Now I consider Frontier to be an Alternate Universe spin-off, whereas Oolite is the definitive sequel to Elite for me!

whereas Oolite is the definitive sequel to Elite for me!

Same here!

Zptr wrote:

I edit a magazine and manage a blog called PlaySF and I'm in the process of writing a little something on why Elite still matters after all these years. I'm not sure yet if the resulting article will appear in the mag or online, it rather depends on where your comments take me.

Regards

Richie Shoemaker
PlaySF

Let us know when the article appears. I'm sure we will be interested.

I seem to be a little late to the discussion, as usual

I'm not a veteran Elite pilot like many of the people on these boards are. My first exposure to the game, in fact, came through Oolite a few years ago. However, even though I'm a relative newcomer, I agree that the elements that everyone else brings up that contribute to the overall immersion factor -- the simple premise, the almost limitless possibilities, the lack of "confinement" to a single storyline or set of storylines, and the idea of the player as simply one more fish in a big pond -- make it a compelling game, both from my own experience with Oolite and from the fact that those elements still draw me towards the games I consider some of my favorites.

The game I have the fondest memories of playing in my childhood was a little game by Sid Meier called Civilization, which is to 4X strategy games what Elite is to space sims. You were given a simple group of nomad settlers and called to create a civilization that could stand the test of time. To do that, you had to expand and develop your chosen civilization by settling new territory, developing new technology, and building improvements and World Wonders to give your civilization bonuses. You could choose to cultivate your civilization peacefully and win the game by launching a spaceship to Alpha Centauri, or you could choose to build massive armies to conquer your neighbors and, ultimately, the world. Every game gave you a different map and different opponents, so no two games were ever the same. As the human player you might be a little smarter in some areas than the AI, but the tools you had access to were no different than the ones they could build or research (or, in the case of World Wonders, that they could steal out from under your nose right before you finished building them). You weren't some sort of "Chosen One," gifted with special skills with which you were destined to vanquish evil; any achievements you had were gained by your own skill. You weren't simply acting out a part in someone else's story; you were creating your own.

A lot of games that I've played and continued to play despite their age share those same basic characteristics. They make you feel like you're creating your own story. They don't try to tell you that your character is special, but in so doing they make you actually feel special yourself because you're doing great things with the same tools that anyone else in the game world can pick up and use just as well as you can.

My first experience with Elite was way back in the C64 days, and I guess my story is similar to the other commanders of that vintage.

I'm curious, though, are there any stories from commanders that started with Oolite and have never seen Elite in its original form?

Zptr wrote:

So, to start, why does Elite still matter?

It's a question that I find hard to answer. Elite shouldn't matter; it's been eulogised over, remade, improved (arguably) and its innovations taken down all sorts of routes by many different developers, and yet it's still there as the foremost game in the space/sandbox genre. Why?

1. Elite created a genre.
   It still matters because it set a standard for space combat / trading sims.
2. It was the first high-quality game that an entire generation (or three) of home computer users used.
   To those of us of that generation, we still remember it fondly.
3. It was of far higher quality that most anything else that was out at the time.
   We remember it as a game which raised the bar.
4. The Beeb Micro owners were desperate to tell the rest of us microcomputer users that theirs was the best computer and Elite let them do that (for a while...).
   The Beeb owners will always be smug about that. (Even if they were wrong, etc.)
5. Those of us who learned a bit about programming could see how most games were written and believed we could do the same. But we could not comprehend how Braben & Bell had crammed so much data into the available memory and yet still had enough left for a graphical game.
   Elite showed us that programming can be done excellently and redefined 'impossible'. We then went on to watch Microsoft release a word processor / spreadsheet distribution on 26 x 1.44Mb floppy disks, FFS. The Apple ][ and Beeb Micro and plenty of other micros either had this functionality on a PROM chip or on a single density floppy. Elite still shows how bloated the output from Microsoft is.
6. For a game to remain popular for a long time, it must be fun and challenging, not pretty. Elite was fun and challenging.
   Many modern games look great, but after 40 minutes are samey. Minesweeper, Solitaire and Elite are still great examples of simple games that you can keep returning to.
7. Every so often an unexpected mission would pop up - this hugely increased playability.
   People still remember some of those missions years later - they were novel and challenging and cannot be replicated in many games.
8. Rewards in the form of titles and toys came early, but getting to Elite (on my Speccy version) took a loooong time and really did feel like a challenge.
   Getting to Elite almost warrants an entry on ones CV as a lifetime achievement.
9. It was very, very hard to hack (the Speccy version, anyway) so the easiest way to Elite was the hard way.
   That long, hard slog to Elite and the weeks of sleepness nights leave their mark on one's psyche in that you always know you can push yourself to achieve a goal if you really want it.
10. You always had a choice whether or not to die. Whereas other games have a lethal end-of-level monster, it is up to you whether to face a pack of pirates, or run away. Your choice, not the game's. So if you run away, you resolve to beat them next time.
    This is a major part of why Elite got under people's skin - YOU chose when you died, not the game. It was by pushing yourself too far before you have the requisite skills and trying to be too greedy or too brave, or too impatient that resulted in death ... usually. But once in a while you take out those 6 pirates AND the next 3 AND another group of 6 and make it to the docking station, exhausted, and have to dock manually because all the ship's systems have been damaged. What a thrill that was. And then having to decide: pay for the repairs and make a huge loss, or restore from a saved game and lose the 12 kills you notched up. Dammit - you take the loss and keep the kills, of course. You made credits by trading, but you earned kills. That meant you subconsciously made the game as tough as you wanted it and kept it pitched at that level. This challenge could them go on for weeks or months - that kind of challenge is, of course, memorable for life, hence it still matters to me.

There's ten reasons off the top of my head.

But once in a while you take out those 6 pirates AND the next 3 AND another group of 6 and make it to the docking station, exhausted, and have to dock manually because all the ship's systems have been damaged. What a thrill that was. And then having to decide: pay for the repairs and make a huge loss, or restore from a saved game and lose the 12 kills you notched up. Dammit - you take the loss and keep the kills, of course. You made credits by trading, but you earned kills. That meant you subconsciously made the game as tough as you wanted it and kept it pitched at that level. This challenge could them go on for weeks or months - that kind of challenge is, of course, memorable for life, hence it still matters to me.

I had that same experience this weekend. A mark of mine led me through 3 planetary systems and I killed him with .2 fuel and had to use all of that outrunning the Q-bomb he dropped as his ship exploded.

Now I'm in the middle of a fuedal system, midway between the witchpoint and station space. Limping along at speed 350 and fighting like hell to get into the haven of Station space.

I succeeded, I wiped the sweat off my brow, cracked my aching knuckles, lit up a cigarette and enjoyed a satisfaction that could best be described as nearly post-cloital.

I guess that's why I'm divorced.....(LoL)

Very well said SandJ and everyone else too.

I remember that my dad bought an Acorn Electron. It was on this computer and that I first played Elite. Loading took forever but the wireframe graphics and the game depth was something not done before. I never made it to Elite on the Acorn Electron but the scene was set.

Years later I bought Elite Plus for PC and got to dangerous. I also played (and some I still play) lot of other space games. Frontier and FFE, Xwing, XvT, Freelancer, X3.

When compared against the above mentioned games I think the Elite/Oolite formula has its strength in having the best blend between simulation and game elements. not too arcady and not too much sim.

X3 for example made the mistake of a too complex trade/economic system combined with box like spaces and not so awesome combat.
Freelancer, while a good game in its own right, had combat that was a bit too arcady and relied heavy on shield batteries and nanobots while having not a lot of tactical depth. Frontier and FFE had a space too big and the unworkable newtonian flight and the combat was horrible (but I liked the exploration). Xwing and XvT where more of 'genre games' and offered not other freeform gameplay.

I always kept coming back to play Elite and now Oolite. Because Oolite offers the same formula with a lot of extra's and it is simply FUN FUN FUN.

pagroove wrote:

... and it is simply FUN FUN FUN.

Fun Fun Fun!