Oolite Bulletins

Lone_Wolf wrote:

The salvage drones from  Deep Space Dredger already need to take over a derelicts computer to put it on autopilot, they seem a more logical candidate to take care of the things described in this thread then the fuel collector.

Commander McLane wrote:

.....nor do I particularly like the whole pretext of salvaging ships.....

Smivs wrote:

Commander McLane wrote:

.....nor do I particularly like the whole pretext of salvaging ships.....

I don't have the OXP, but it seems quite reasonable to me that there would be those specialising in salvage in the Ooniverse. In Oolite we have trade ships plying the spacelanes, just like the shipping we're familiar with here on Earth, and accidents and disasters will from time to time befall them. However I wouldn't necessarily expect to see a salvage operation in progress, as they would be extremely rare events, as they are today on Earth.

CommonSenseOTB wrote:

I've thought about this a fair bit. It's not typical of my views of wanting variety in game but in this instance I think modifying the Fuel Collector for these purposes is a bad idea.

1) This is a navy invention, correct? The navy aren't pirates so would never develop this way of hacking into a ships computer to get it to release cargo, etc. They would also look at the downside of thier technology getting loose and it's consequences. Giving the pirates another tool to rob ships is not something GalCop would risk.
Also why would GalCop put a lot of hardworking salvagers, many using the Hognose Tugship out of work? They wouldn't.

2) Are we all just so poor that we really need to salvage every cargo cannister and even so lazy that we don't want to run after a few stray cargo containers? Flying after cargo containers to scoop them is a core game mechanic. Maybe get the ship to slow down first(fuel injection off) before you blow them up and you won't have to chase so much.

3) If we want to salvage a ship then let's really SALVAGE a ship. The player wanting to become a salvager would either purchase a suitable ship for towing ships or install some sort of tractor beam(much less effective, more suitable for quick reaction to attacks however). This would require a specific oxp be made. The other possibility is to have computers and equipment to allow docking with derelict ships. All kinds of things can be found on board. For this a real oxp that has a style similar to random hits would be needed to create all the possibilities. There could be a couple of dozen different categories of things to interact with/salvage on a derelict ship and each could have a lot of different specifics created in a Random Hits style. This could be a new career choice if developed properly.

4) Balance requires give and take. If you can get something for nothing it isn't fun. I'm not talking credits for the equipment. There has to be the risk of salvaging, making yourself an easy target in order to carry out a salvage operation. Also the risk of surprises in the derelict ship(small risk) such as booby traps(pirate ships) and stragglers hiding out and think of a hundred other possibilities.

Whatever functionality is added to the Fuel Collector I would ask that it not prevent or make redundant a future salvager-type oxp. Getting a derelict ship to eject cargo should be random at best. Damage may in at least half the cases prevent the ejection system from working at all and what you get may in a lot of cases be undesireable.(sorting through cargo is a job for a salvager on the derelict ship itself) This is only if the computer can even be hacked(less than 65% probably) and doesn't have a booby trap hooked to it(pirate ships would account for most of these cases and perhaps navy/police ships). Another possibility is having your own ship hacked by a virus while interfacing with the derelict ship's computer. Results like some in the Flying Dutchman oxp could result. Different ship system failures intermittently, resulting in purchasing a computer servicing to fix.

Also let's not forget that it can take some time to hack a ship's computer for cargo(this won't be a navy designed addition to the fuel collector anyway, would it?). A third party addition to the functionality of the fuel collector probably wouldn't be as efficient as a navy job. Perhaps it would take as long as 30 seconds in some cases where the computer messages say that it is retrying(for various reasons). Maybe chasing down a few containers isn't so bad after all. Perhaps there is a reason to salvage ships by docking with them and going on board to have a look around, eh?

There is a lot of talent on this board and "someone" will eventually attempt a salvager oxp, hopefully with the intention that it will provide a vast wealth of experience and fun and playability. This kind of thing would be easier to do for the author of Random Hits as this style of mission/event generation would fit nicely here. This would be a considerable undertaking to devote the time needed to do this concept justice but would be well worth it as I believe that most people would find it irresistable to have a peek inside the derelict to look for (whatever?) when it is reasonably safe to do so.

Just my $4.63 worth...


(If nobody tackles this in the next 6 to 8 months then I will give it a shot provided that most of the core hud development I've started is complete. Would probably be a 6 month commitment just to get it right.)

Commander McLane wrote:

Unfortunately my initial test made it clear that my idea doesn't work out. It's impossible to give access to NPC's cargo without messing with Oolite's internal cargo mechanism. The reason is that Oolite's internal cargo mechanism isn't exposed to JavaScript at all.

Any NPC ship has 0 cargo on board until it releases the first cargo container. Only then the number of cargo containers that can be released is determined in the first place.

if ((cargo_flag == CARGO_FLAG_FULL_PLENTIFUL)||(cargo_flag == CARGO_FLAG_FULL_SCARCE))

CommonSenseOTB wrote:

couldn't the player target the derelict and have the cargo ejection system hacking device hack the derlicts computer by changing/switching the AI of the derelict to a special AI that causes the ship to ejectCargo and then change/switch the AI back again? What is the AI of a Derelict to begin with?

Eric Walch wrote:

CommonSenseOTB wrote:

couldn't the player target the derelict and have the cargo ejection system hacking device hack the derlicts computer by changing/switching the AI of the derelict to a special AI that causes the ship to ejectCargo and then change/switch the AI back again? What is the AI of a Derelict to begin with?

That AI change would be quite easy. Derelicts have a nullAI.plist. Problem is that the command ejectCargo is specific created for traders and generally will only work as expected for populater added traders that became derelict. That are only those traders have those specific cargo flags FULL_PLENTIFUL and FULL_SCARCE set.When an oxp adds ships by the generic trader role and turns them into derelict it will not work. So, I think the overall result will not be satisfactory.

Edit: I just looked into the code. I see that there is an explicit check for the 'trader' role that also makes that oxp added traders have that flag set. So, yes, it should work for any ship that was spawn in a 'trader' role.

Eric Walch wrote:

I just did a quick test with the console:

Code: Select all

system.addShips('trader', 1, player.ship.position, 10000)
PS.target.awardEquipment("EQ_ESCAPE_POD")
PS.target.abandonShip()
PS.target.setAI("ejectCargoAI.plist")

Where the "ejectCargoAI.plist" is:

Code: Select all

{
    GLOBAL = {UPDATE = (ejectCargo, exitAI);
    };
}

And it worked, the ship released his cargo. But I have no intention to build such equipment myself.