Oolite Bulletins

Switeck wrote:

But in no case should Anacondas be unable to dock at the Coriolis Station.

Why?

I realise they did in Elite, but using shuttles instead seems like one of the clearest cases of a technical restriction that can be lifted without messing with gameplay – and while nerfing the player-flyable Python would be an undesirable limitation, the Anaconda is more of a novelty.

Ahruman wrote:

Switeck wrote:

But in no case should Anacondas be unable to dock at the Coriolis Station.

Why?

I realise they did in Elite, but using shuttles instead seems like one of the clearest cases of a technical restriction that can be lifted without messing with gameplay – and while nerfing the player-flyable Python would be an undesirable limitation, the Anaconda is more of a novelty.

Gets my vote! Would be good to see a ship that can carry 750TCs of kit compared to the rest of the core ships, actually be a size that reflects it!

And it would make owning an Anaconda a more careful decision - where, as the player, you'd have to have installed OXPs that would allow you to dock elsewhere (such as a superhub) - ah, but that doesn't help you save... unless Ahruman would also allow a mechanism for the player to transfer to another ship... (but that doesn't sound like the level of jiggery you were referring to Ahruman?)

I occurs to me that not every station might not be able to accommodate every ship. Lower tech systems might have stations that reflect their current tech status ie; the standard docking arrangement.

OTOH, high tech level system might have stations with larger docking facilities as a reflection of their wealth and technical savvy.

It would add an interesting twist to the Ooniverse: someone who buys a larger ship like an Anaconda would either have to plan to dock at systems with appropriate facilities, OR, could purchase a shuttle for their ship or shuttle "service" from the smaller stations. In the latter, perhaps a percentage of the load being sold ...

Just an idea...

Cheers.

DaddyHoggy wrote:

And it would make owning an Anaconda a more careful decision

I thought I was being reasonably clear – if any of the core ships end up undockable, you won’t be able to buy them.

Ahruman wrote:

Switeck wrote:

But in no case should Anacondas be unable to dock at the Coriolis Station.

Why?

I realise they did in Elite, but using shuttles instead seems like one of the clearest cases of a technical restriction that can be lifted without messing with gameplay – and while nerfing the player-flyable Python would be an undesirable limitation, the Anaconda is more of a novelty.

Why because the Anaconda is very slow, turns even slower, can't have military shields, and costs a lot compared to other core ships. Beyond using its large cargo capacity for cargo contracts...its extra space is of limited value and not worth paying the sacrifices for it. Gold/Plat/Gems cargo contracts is where the real money is at, so the 750 TC is even of limited utility for cargo contracts. I am even unaware of any mission that takes advantage of the Anaconda's cargo space. Make it too large for regular stations to handle and/or reduce its cargo max down to 250 TC and you're crippling an already weak unit.

If you must change its size, make it longer instead of fatter/taller -- like a stretch limousine.

Switeck wrote:

Why because the Anaconda is very slow, turns even slower, can't have military shields, and costs a lot compared to other core ships. Beyond using its large cargo capacity for cargo contracts...its extra space is of limited value and not worth paying the sacrifices for it. Gold/Plat/Gems cargo contracts is where the real money is at, so the 750 TC is even of limited utility for cargo contracts. I am even unaware of any mission that takes advantage of the Anaconda's cargo space.

Exactly. The Anaconda is already utterly useless as a player ship. Making it an NPC-only giant cargo hauler that requires tenders to load/unload from stations will provide more atmosphere and better reflect its nature without losing any gameplay value.

Ahruman wrote:

DaddyHoggy wrote:

And it would make owning an Anaconda a more careful decision

I thought I was being reasonably clear – if any of the core ships end up undockable, you won’t be able to buy them.

Yeh, just wanted to make sure...

(Although don't some of the very lucrative contracts effectively assume you're in an Anaconda given the loads involved?)

Ahruman wrote:

Switeck wrote:

Why because the Anaconda is very slow, turns even slower, can't have military shields, and costs a lot compared to other core ships. Beyond using its large cargo capacity for cargo contracts...its extra space is of limited value and not worth paying the sacrifices for it. Gold/Plat/Gems cargo contracts is where the real money is at, so the 750 TC is even of limited utility for cargo contracts. I am even unaware of any mission that takes advantage of the Anaconda's cargo space.

Exactly. The Anaconda is already utterly useless as a player ship. Making it an NPC-only giant cargo hauler that requires tenders to load/unload from stations will provide more atmosphere and better reflect its nature without losing any gameplay value.

Sounds good to me - it's along similar lines that I was originally thinking when I designed the HammerHead (except it brings its own tenders with it, well kinda). I'd also vote for the "Anaconda model" ship to be shrunk in cargo size (and undo the original error made) to keep the ship in the game, but maybe redo its stats. I know it would be effectively another ship, but still something nice to have around in a smaller scale alongside its bigger NPC 750t brother.

That said it would still make a much more interesting dynamic to have multiple station types with multiple dock sizes, so not every ship can dock everywhere. Also perhaps having multiple main stations in systems to change the impact of this on the player game, or finally have saving everywhere somehow (tricky I know).

Ahruman wrote:

Exactly. The Anaconda is already utterly useless as a player ship. Making it an NPC-only giant cargo hauler that requires tenders to load/unload from stations will provide more atmosphere and better reflect its nature without losing any gameplay value.

It's not "utterly useless as a player ship". I'd say it's considerably more useful than an Adder. Even in some missions, it has an advantage of carrying more missile pylons than normal ships. It can snipe from a distance easier than many other ships because it can make small angle changes. It's got 7 energy banks.

I'd still prefer if it was about 50-100% longer than currently and able to dock. Sure, it'd be easier to hit...but it'd make sense to have a huge cargo capacity that way. I can't say I'm happy with the removal of player options strictly because we don't think people would play that way. As a pure freighter, the Anaconda currently is usable. Many cargo contracts can ONLY be done by it. It wasn't a game balance problem that needed fixing because it broke other things in the game. At most, its size relative to its cargo capacity is an aesthetic issue.

Switeck wrote:

As a pure freighter, the Anaconda currently is usable. Many cargo contracts can ONLY be done by it.

That is a valid point. The cargo contracts should be capped at 175t if there is no player ship that can carry more.

Before changing the anaconda I would remember that is a historic elite ship and probably shouldn't except to be more realistic in size(bigger). The cargo should remain the same as the cargo handling system is the famous Swingwares Platforms(did I remember that off the top of my head? ) and the ship wasn't restricted in anyway for docking at the stations so either the main stations(all of them) should be made just big enough or some provision should be made to unload them by shuttle and if so I like the idea of a Main Trade Route type of station big enough for the Anaconda available on the primary trade runs. Whatever the case the Anaconda should remain buyable by the player and if shuttle loading/unloading becomes a staple it could apply to other bigger oxp ships. This would be a positive development simply from realism and from what the fans of oolite want based on comment in many different threads.

I talk to much.

Later...

Make the Anaconda bigger, and make the standard stations big enough so they can use them. Slow down the station rotation too. The expanded game contains enough other tricky docking manoeuvres (docking with carriers, Constores, etc.) to satisfy the old hands, and easier parking will make the game more accessible to new players.

Put a bunch of extra detail on the enlarged dock interiors: little windows, signs, pipework etc., and let players enjoy a few seconds of sightseeing inside the dock before the rings appear.

Disembodied wrote:

Make the Anaconda bigger, and make the standard stations big enough so they can use them. Slow down the station rotation too. The expanded game contains enough other tricky docking manoeuvres (docking with carriers, Constores, etc.) to satisfy the old hands, and easier parking will make the game more accessible to new players.

Put a bunch of extra detail on the enlarged dock interiors: little windows, signs, pipework etc., and let players enjoy a few seconds of sightseeing inside the dock before the rings appear.

The most memorable thing from FFE/Frontier other than how it crushed my hopes and dreams and turned me into an evil person who steals candy from babies at Christmas... uh were was I... Oh:

The SECOND most memorable thing from FFE/Frontier was those Jjagged Bbanner ads, I used to like seeing a bit of randomness during docking.

About the scale of ships possibly getting changed This was my biggest concern about scale, kinda got side-tracked over the scale of planets etcetera and forgot that my biggest peeve about scale was inconsistent ships sizes

Easier docking...? I distinctly remember that it took quite a while in Elite on the C=64 until I managed my first docking and boy did I feel good about it then! Oolite already is a lot easier thanks to the buoys, in fact I don't remember much crashing into the station at all. Making it even easier might take away that sense of accomplishment completely.

Maybe provide easy, medium, and hard gameplay modes:

• easy: no rotation of stations,
• medium: like Oolite 1,
• hard: like Oolite 1 but without the buoy and the slot facing in a random direction (because the planet in fact is the buoy)

maik wrote:

Easier docking...? I distinctly remember that it took quite a while in Elite on the C=64 until I managed my first docking and boy did I feel good about it then! Oolite already is a lot easier thanks to the buoys, in fact I don't remember much crashing into the station at all. Making it even easier might take away that sense of accomplishment completely.

Maybe provide easy, medium, and hard gameplay modes:

• easy: no rotation of stations,
• medium: like Oolite 1,
• hard: like Oolite 1 but without the buoy and the slot facing in a random direction (because the planet in fact is the buoy)

Docking does seem to be a negative aspect of the game for some people: see the entry under "Nintendo Hard" in the Oolite page of TV Tropes, for example – which is in general a very friendly review.

Back in the day, we were all tougher, more stoic, and capable of walking 10 miles to school every day through 6 feet of snow, uphill both ways ... mind you, we were prepared to sit patiently loading games in from cassette tape, watching paint dry (if you were a Spectrum owner) or continental drift (if you had a C=64 and no disk drive). I don't think people today are so patient. There's a lot more competition out there for people's fun time, and docking can be a bit of a bugger. Especially for a new player who has managed to navigate his way all the way through to the first destination, and has limped along under mass-lock up to the station only to die while trying to park.

Would we lose anything important by making the docks bigger and slower? I think we'd definitely gain a little bit of "ooh, wow, big!", and reduce the amount of frustrated tears ...