For information and discussion about Oolite.
https://bb.oolite.space/
Smivs wrote:Hmmm, let me think. I'd go for something totally weird, like being a male Human from Earth or somesuch.
Your choice … but there's no such planet in Oolite! Of course, all this fluff about the player character can exist perfectly happily inside the player's head, without impinging on the game - but then, the same could be said about the PC's name, and the name of their ship.I'm thinking more of something like a game mode.Disembodied wrote:Of course, all this fluff about the player character can exist perfectly happily inside the player's head, without impinging on the game - but then, the same could be said about the PC's name, and the name of their ship.
Default status is 'offender', even the slightest transgression and you become 'fugitive'. What's more, your bounty grows with your reputation (combat rating). Maybe there's a way to clear your reputation but perhaps only with certain races, governments or organisations and then only one at a time. Perhaps absolution lies in a final mission where your reputation can be transformed (I think there might be a suitable one in the core already...)I'm working on it. I basically slapped together Skilled NPC and Deep Space Pirates, and modified so they scale with the player's score (aka number of kills). From Harmless to Dangerous, Skilled NPC will apply a "baseline" from -5 to +5 and DSP will spawn from 1 to 10 ships. That's +1 accuracy every 32 kills and +1 ship every 50 kills or so. I chose the dangerous rating as an upper limit because higher ranks require so many kills that you have to make hundreds of kills to see a slight difficulty increase.cim wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:48 pmSo, potential approach (almost all on the areas where Oolite already differs from Elite) - the general aim would be to make combat easier for new players (by reducing the number of enemies in safe systems significantly) but harder for experienced players (by reducing the power of high-end equipment, making the AI more dangerous in packs, and taking away some auto-win tactics that a new player wouldn't think of or have the equipment for):
1) Remove the range differences between lasers - set them all to 12.5km (Thargoid turret laser could stay at 17.5km)
2) Reduce the Cobra III back to 300m/s top speed
3) Add 5 to all NPC skill levels
4) Make beam lasers much rarer on NPCs except in the most dangerous systems
5) Reduce pack sizes for all types significantly - generally 1 or 2 ships only, with 4 or 5 as a pack size for the most dangerous systems. (Under half the current sizes). Similarly reduce escort counts for traders.
6) Remove packs from the 'foreign raider' generation for both hunters and pirates - use individual (but tough) ships
7) Make shield boosters improve recharge rate, not shield size - paired with EEU and especially NEU you'll still get a lot of extra effective shielding, but only if you're not constantly being hit.
8. Possibly also reduce the number of ships generated in total.
9) Make injectors much more fuel-efficient, but only give a small (50%?) speed boost, and generate heat to prevent constant use. Reduce the masslock radius for stars significantly to compensate.
10) Remove 'player-unknown' from the list of roles pirates attack, so that new players get attacked much less (especially if they don't get into an A-B loop)
Just a detail here, on mining: might it make things a little bit more interesting, especially for beginning players, if there was a low (1%?) chance of a scooped splinter yielding 1kg of gold or platinum, or 2D6g of gems? And maybe even a 2% chance of getting Alloys instead of Minerals? When the player scoops cargo pods, there's always the anticipation of what might be inside: it would be good if a small element of that applied to scooping splinters, too.Astrobe wrote:I'm also considering a different start: a Medical Moray converted for mining, with cargo bay extension, mining laser, fuel scoops, injectors, and 0 credits. It's approximately the same value as the default start. It's interesting to note that many alternative starts feature mining. A miner start in this configuration has a number of advantages in my eyes:
- you go from place to place, shoot asteroids, catch splinters. It is a relatively fun activity that not worth the time later on in the game (computer/fur milk runs etc.).
- your fuel tank stays full nearly all the time, so it is relatively safe with injectors.
- the Moray is less of a potential über-ship than the Cobra 3, so players can set themselves goals: e.g. pax/parcel Cobra I or trader Cobra III
- it uses only core game elements and requires 0 scripting.
You can just re-write the item in its own equipment.plist and that should work.Astrobe wrote:BTW is there something like equipment-overrides.plist?
Thanks, that was the confirmation I was looking for.
Yes, I'm thinking about something like that. A small percent chance to get alien items or alloys when splitting an asteroid or a boulder (I think there's an OXP somewhere that does that), or selling the harvest at the hermit rock for a small fee (might not even be necessary, considered that the prices are already low there) and a chance to get some gold/plat/gems. Kind of gambling with rocks. Another idea would be some sort of quest in which you get alien artefacts that unlock something... I'll decide based on what other purpose it could serve and how complex it is to program (Ideally if I can pillage yet another OXP...).Disembodied wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:14 amJust a detail here, on mining: might it make things a little bit more interesting, especially for beginning players, if there was a low (1%?) chance of a scooped splinter yielding 1kg of gold or platinum, or 2D6g of gems? And maybe even a 2% chance of getting Alloys instead of Minerals? When the player scoops cargo pods, there's always the anticipation of what might be inside: it would be good if a small element of that applied to scooping splinters, too.
Equipment prices need to be made consistent. For instance Waypoint Here is very useful for miners (to mark asteroids), but is priced 2500Cr - about 10 times the price of the ASC it is supposed to upgrade. 250Cr is a more acceptable price. On the other extreme, Phkb's Fast Targeting is extremely useful, but is priced only 10Cr and depends on nothing. Pricing it around 2500Cr and making it a multi-targeting system enhancement upgrade seems the right way to integrate in (this/the) game logic. I like the idea of a feature upgrade path for equipment - that's a logic that's already present in the core game. Moreover, the equipment value is part of the overhaul cost, so piling up equipment has a cost too.There is, of course, the Ore Processor OXP, but it's very old, and requires the purchase of a high-tech item of equipment: I think it would be better just to give players a small chance of finding something shiny now and then, without having to spend money up-front to get it. Once a player can afford to lay out Cr3500 on an Ore Processor, they probably don't need to - and in any case, maybe the Ore Processor could just increase the chance of finding something other than Minerals.
Well, almost 4 times the price anyway. The default price for the ASC is 650cr. I know you were just using WH as an example, and that the issue is broader than just one OXP, but as I'm currently the maintainer of Waypoint Here, I could certainly drop the price if there was a general feeling that a lower price would be more appropriate. I'd also need to check with Neelix, the original developer.Astrobe wrote:For instance Waypoint Here is very useful for miners (to mark asteroids), but is priced 2500Cr - about 10 times the price of the ASC it is supposed to upgrade.
When I wrote that "equipment prices need to be made consistent", I didn't even realise that it's easier said than done because I was thinking in the context of my own plan, where there is a (clear) logic that guides that kind of choice; an OXP on its own has a much heavier burden of choice. TBH, that same logic might have me switch to the pylon-based alternative to WH if I see fit.phkb wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:55 pmWell, almost 4 times the price anyway. The default price for the ASC is 650cr. I know you were just using WH as an example, and that the issue is broader than just one OXP, but as I'm currently the maintainer of Waypoint Here, I could certainly drop the price if there was a general feeling that a lower price would be more appropriate. I'd also need to check with Neelix, the original developer.Astrobe wrote:For instance Waypoint Here is very useful for miners (to mark asteroids), but is priced 2500Cr - about 10 times the price of the ASC it is supposed to upgrade.
If you have trouble reaching him, I have his phone number.. (hope it's still current.. haven't caught up with him in a long time)
Just reading through this and wondering ... Surely it should be possible to create some sort of "override oxp" which would separate out the various stations? Putting the monastery around the moon and the RSS station midway to the second planet. And generating traffic between them all? Either an override oxp which worked with the inherent randomness of what people load up, or a more dictatorial sort which determined all this to a greater degree, specifying which lunar/planetary adding oxp's were used and which extra station oxp's were used? After all, Stranger's World does seem to do this to an extent. So the solution for the "modability" is just more "modability"!Astrobe wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:33 am... That Oolite is a space game engine and that everyone can have their own game? I used to share that view.
Where does this consensus problem come from? It's not just personal preferences; because each player has a different game, they see different problems and even when they all see the same problem, one given solution might only work for some players, because... each player has a different game.
Just yesterday I started a new commander. First trip to Zaonce. What I see there is a Black Monastery, an RSS station, and a Salvage Gang all "stupidly" clamped together in the middle of the lane. I also see an extra planet in the distance and a moon. So I think "A new player might think this is a bit messy. They should have put the Monastery on orbit around the moon and the RSS station maybe midway to the second planet". If they submit the idea to the board, the answers will probably something like, "I'm not sure it is worth including checks for additional planets; furthermore extra moons are optional too, so it'll only work for a fraction of players and it would need a lot of tests" or "many people have Deep Space Pirates so they might get punished for leaving the lane".
People would then suggest more solutions and debate over it, but this idea - like many others - will just slowly sink because of the lack of consensus which in turn erodes incentive. Fortunately that precise example isn't a big deal after all, right? Then what about the bigger problems? Shall we be able to solve them someday, or shall we wait for a superhero to come and dictate a solution (because "you don't look a gift horse in the mouth") for better or worse?
I know nobody here is deliberately trying to block progress. But what I want you to realize is that your take on Oolite's modability does hurt it.
I call that 'oxp bullying' - it's not a great name as it makes it sound bad by default, but it is kinda catchy.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:25 amJust reading through this and wondering ... Surely it should be possible to create some sort of "override oxp" which would separate out the various stations? Putting the monastery around the moon and the RSS station midway to the second planet. And generating traffic between them all? Either an override oxp which worked with the inherent randomness of what people load up, or a more dictatorial sort which determined all this to a greater degree, specifying which lunar/planetary adding oxp's were used and which extra station oxp's were used? After all, Stranger's World does seem to do this to an extent. So the solution for the "modability" is just more "modability"!
There is a way to do this for the sorted part of what you want. Let us look at the somewhat generic code that any OXP/ OXZ is going to use to set up an F4 Station Interface.
Code: Select all
this.$initInterface = function $initInterface(station) {
station.setInterface(this.name,{
title: "<text>",
category: "<text>",
summary: "<text",
callback:this.$setupMissionPage.bind(this)
});