Oolite Bulletins

El Viejo wrote:

Gimi wrote:

If player is a fugitive and comes within 10km of stations, CSP attacks, additional CSP is launched from station.

Hmm... and if the fugitive player just happens to have official dealings with HIMSN, what then?

Then it would be as part of a mission, and a special case has to be made.

<nods> I don't believe that any of the native missions depend on the player's legal status - do they?

El Viejo wrote:

<nods> I don't believe that any of the native missions depend on the player's legal status - do they?

Not sure, but some OXP missions require the player to be clean.

another_commander wrote:

Gimi wrote:

El Viejo wrote:

The Navy versions will have to be considerably tougher to pose a challenge to the avrage player. So the Navy Sidewinder will sport missiles and more. Attacking a Navy ship should not be a very smart thing to do.

In v1.77, with the improvements in the combat AI and the introduction of accuracy as a combat AI effectiveness parameter (thanks cim!), you can set any ship's accuracy to something like 9 or 10 and then you'll see how tough a Sidewinder can become. A few moons ago, I was test-dogfighting a Mamba with an accuracy of 9 and no other modifications. Normally a Mamba dies in front of my laser sights within five nanoseconds, but that one took me something like twenty minutes to vaporize. It was one of the most intense combat experiences I've had with Oolite and I think that's exactly what an Elite or HIMSN pilot would fight like.

This is something I have not considered. May well avoid HIMSN introducing Über NPC ships to make things plausible.
As I don't know what is possible within the game, some experimentation is going to be needed here.

El Viejo wrote:

Gimi wrote:

HIMSN is a "small" navy with limited resources. The focus is quality, not quantity

This is my view of HIMSN too - but I'm possibly too immersed in the fiction side of things for my opinions to carry much weight - too biased towards the core game.
I definitely think you're on the right track though, Gimi - I'd have no interest in a GalNavy type of OXP (which I've no doubt said before).

It's in fact the very raison d'etre of this thread.

Commander McLane wrote:

It's in fact the very raison d'etre of this thread.

<chortles> Indeed - I'm sure that's why you started this thread, McLane (as I've mentioned before).

Thanks guys, but can't claim much of the credit for the shape, inspired as it was by this lego microscale space carrier.

Anyhow, I have integrated a third aft-facing dock into the Komodo Fleet Carrier. Its current size is just shy of 2.5km in length, with 'standard' 192x64 meter docking ports.

Hehe, so what's the fine going to be for injecting into the rear docking port, swerving left or right and belting out at the front

No fine, but you'll have to do Carruther's paperwork for a month. Or, if you have a cloaking device, you can opt to have that confiscated instead. The later option is supposedly the better choice!

Storm wrote:

Anyhow, I have integrated a third aft-facing dock into the Komodo Fleet Carrier. Its current size is just shy of 2.5km in length, with 'standard' 192x64 meter docking ports.

Storm.
(Sorry for late reply. I have been thinking and trying to tidy up my notes and ideas on HIMSN)
While I like your design, this is really much to big for what I have in mind. I haven't made my mind up yet, but something the size (or slightly larger) than the current Behemoth is probably closer to the mark. I have thought of a design with a side launching port on either side at the bow and a single rear docking port. But I am still not sure. But something more than twice the size of a Coriolis station is a but much I think. Please see post below to see where I am with HIMSN at the moment.

A little recap and speculation on what, where and when with regards to HIMSN.oxp.

I think that a little summary is in order if this OXP is ever going to happen.

Quick History:
A while back (April/May 2012) it was discovered that a few player on this board had, independently and for various reasons, chosen to remove Galactic Navy OXP from their game.
The main reasons were:
-To big and to dominant. (Just to many Navy ships and stations everywhere)
-Has strayed to far away from what is considered by many to be Elite Canon.
-Needs an update and was, according to some, never finished.
-The Navy acts too much like Police (Extension of GALCOP)

After some deliberation and discussion ideas for an "alternative Navy" in Oolite started to take form.
Being one of the players not comfortable with the current GALNAV.oxp, but also a firm believer in some Navy presence in the Ooniverse, I started throwing around my ideas and I also started taking notes. This developed to the point where some people thought I should take the lead in this. Still not sure if that is a good idea, but that is where we are now.

Reading back through this thread and my notes I can see that my ideas and perception of HIMSN has changed some since May. So what I imagine today is a bit different from the ideas that were thrown around initially.
I'll try to convey where I stand in this somewhat long and boring post.

First of; where I stand and some prerequisites.
I don't program, and I also don't make models or textures. (Not that I haven't tried, I'm just useless at it) So I'm going to need help with virtually everything.
This includes making ship and station models, developing the Navy AI's, Scripting and putting it all together. As you can see, there is not very much I can do and I'm probably not going to take much credit for HIMSN.oxp if it's ever created.
What I have been doing is trying to develop a concept, an "order of battle" for HIMSN, some AI behaviour rules, a look and feel and stuff like that.

Concept
-This will be an Oolite 1.77+ OXP only (I want to take advantage of the new features).
-A small Navy in the Ooniverse that adheres as closely as possible to what little reference there is to a Navy in the original Elite game and documentation.
-Use the core ship-set for Navy units. (Ship specifications may differ though).
-It shall be a navy, not police. This means that if you are a fugitive, the navy won't bother you. However, if you do commit a crime in their presence they might report you to the police and you could find that your legal status changes suddenly when the report reaches GALCOP.
-Navy presence in the Ooniverse is limited. They are off fighting the Thargoids. You won't see much of them unless you actively seek them out.
-No special weapons beyond what is already in the core game.
-Use the enhanced scripting capabilities in 1.77 (especially AI stuff) to make navy units a real challenge for the best Oolite Pilot out there (If challenged by the player that is).

To make this plausible, and also to prepare fore future missions in the OXP, I have concluded that some type of dockable capital ships (carriers) are needed. This is a diversion from Elite canon, and really not needed until version 2 of the OXP.

Development.
Version 1: (Eye Candy only)
Navy units from the core ship-set.
Navy stations. (HQ and Outpost)
Basic scripting and and AI behaviour.

Version 2: (Thargoid Interaction)
War zones with the Thargoids
Capital ships
Additional stations (Navy Shipyard and maybe some mission related type of station)

Version 3: (Missions)
Player Missions

So this is the framework as I see it.

Next; Navy ships (Order of Battle)
As for units from the core ship-set, I have the following on my list. (Subject to change)

Overall.
Two versions of HIMSN ships is desirable.

One based on Griff's ship-set. The plan for Oolite 2.0 was for Griff Ships to be the standard ship set. So to make HIMSN future proof in case Griff ships are implemented as the standard ship set.

Non shaded version to cater for those that can't use shaders. Smivs has indicated that he is willing to assist with this, and his ship-set is based on the current default ship-set. So a Smivs ship-set version could be the other alternative. His ship damage textures are also a nice feature that would look nice. (hint, hint)

Based on Elite canon I have landed on 6 classes of Navy ships. (Subject to change based on input from the community)
Navy light fighter based on the Sidewinder.
Navy fighter based on the Asp
Navy Missile Corvette based on the Anaconda (Possibly the Boa)
Navy fighter/SPECOPS unit based on the Constrictor
Navy transport based on the Anaconda
Navy CSAR based on the Moray

Design considerations

These ships should be closely based on the ship-set versions. However I would very much like for there to be some subtle differences when the ships are viewed close up revealing that these ships are in fact not the standard ships. I want to leave the actual changes to the designers, but some ideas are indicated below.
• Communications and sensor equipment:
o Visible panels, arrays, antenna indicating military sensors and equipment. (This one is most important in my view)
• Weapons could be more visible and protrusive than on the civilian counterparts.
• Engines could be bigger or the ships could have more engine nozzles.
• Subtle design changes to make the ships look more dangerous.
o Of the current standard ships I think that the Sidewinder needs to be made to look better/more dangerous and navy like.
• The constrictor should look pretty much the same. Some small adjustments compared to the "prototype" used in the core mission would be great. (Communications and sensor array maybe)

For stations i have some more thinking to do, but so far I have come up with the following.
Initially I would like to see three types of stations. Two are one off stations in the Ooniverse (HQ & Shipyard). Last one is a Navy outpost type station.

HIMSN HQ: (One off HQ complex)
• Fairly large and majestic, but a bit messy and asymmetrical. (Size of the Wild Ships station seems about right)
• Should show/indicate that the navy has expanded and bolted on parts as the war with the Thargoids has carried on.
• Dominant communications and sensor arrays not unlike Storms Tionisla Chronicle array for communicating with the fleet, research and self protection.
• Maybe a docking facility for larger ships (I don’t expect to see actual docking, but adding a battle damaged ship permanently docked in one of the bays could be cool.
• Research and development facility attached maybe.
• A close by depot and storage facility with shuttle traffic between the two would be nice.

As for the other two types, not quite made up my mind yet.

All for now.
Please feel free to comment and give suggestions.

Gimi wrote:

-Use the enhanced scripting capabilities in 1.77 (especially AI stuff) to make navy units a real challenge for the best Oolite Pilot out there (If challenged by the player that is).

As promised I did tidy up my "combat test" scripts into a usable form.

The trunk AI is not good enough yet to win a 1-on-1 fight, but they can do teamwork pretty well if they outnumber their target: my preferred test fight is "Sidewinder Escort, Competent pilot, x3", which is an unpleasantly fair fight against my iron-ass Cobra III. (and these are the stock Sidewinder escorts you see getting blown up under untrained pilots all over the spacelanes: try the same fight with Harmless pilots and you'll barely get your shields scratched)

Good summary Gimi, and very useful as the discussion has been wide-ranging.
I can also confirm I'm still on-board this project and will be happy to do what I can.

cim wrote:

Gimi wrote:

-Use the enhanced scripting capabilities in 1.77 (especially AI stuff) to make navy units a real challenge for the best Oolite Pilot out there (If challenged by the player that is).

As promised I did tidy up my "combat test" scripts into a usable form.

The trunk AI is not good enough yet to win a 1-on-1 fight, but they can do teamwork pretty well if they outnumber their target: my preferred test fight is "Sidewinder Escort, Competent pilot, x3", which is an unpleasantly fair fight against my iron-ass Cobra III. (and these are the stock Sidewinder escorts you see getting blown up under untrained pilots all over the spacelanes: try the same fight with Harmless pilots and you'll barely get your shields scratched)

Thanks cim. I downloaded Combat Arena the minute I found it. I haven't tested it yet as time for all things Oolite is still severely limited, but what you describe is probably very close to what I'm looking for. In good Navy tradition, any Naval pilot that leaves his wingman deserves whatever is handed to him/her.

Smivs wrote:

Good summary Gimi, and very useful as the discussion has been wide-ranging.
I can also confirm I'm still on-board this project and will be happy to do what I can.

Thank you Smivs and good to hear. I hope HIMSN comes to fruition, but with the amount of work I will have to load upon others It will, at best, take a while.