Oolite Bulletins

mandoman wrote:

Other than that, the only thing I know to do is to stop designing ships.

Oi! That ship looks like a bundle of tightly-wrapped eff-you-up, and the rest of your ships are just as well-designed! Don't let the criticism weigh you down, rise against it!

Rese249er wrote:

mandoman wrote:

Other than that, the only thing I know to do is to stop designing ships.

Oi! That ship looks like a bundle of tightly-wrapped eff-you-up, and the rest of your ships are just as well-designed! Don't let the criticism weigh you down, rise against it!

And try to NOT take the critiqué as personal insults...
Behind their frustrated words, the veterans are just trying to help.
After all, this IS the Friendliest Board this side of Riedquat ™

Zieman wrote:

Rese249er wrote:

Don't let the criticism weigh you down, rise against it!

...Behind their frustrated words, the veterans are just trying to help.

Exactly. In fairness, I think that

Zieman wrote:

...simple case of auto-triangulating not making triangle edges symmetric on X-axis (about YZ-plane)

may have been the only useful bit of advice. I wouldn't know... all I'm good with is paint-jobs and under-the-hood tweaks.

I do see what you mean, and will try to keep an eye open for those repairs, but I still don't understand the fuss made over it. I kind of like the angular effects, when played off the light of the sun. The thing I don't care for, and try to fix, though not overly successfully, are jagged edges. I would have to make models with absolute straight edges, with ninety degree angles to prevent the jagged appearance. I can correct some of that when aligning the unwrap, but not all. I've been using the Modifier "Smooth" lately, trying to eliminate some of the edge, and triangulation problems. I'll try to do what you just showed, Zieman. I know how, but didn't connect those areas as being part of the triangulation problem.

Thanks for your kind words, Rese249er.

De nada, MandoMan. I refuse to see a skilled artist downtrodden by criticism.

Oh, psha!

So when's the wedding?

Tricky wrote:

So when's the wedding?

Not THAT'S just plain disgusting......... humorous, but disgusting.

If the quote below is mostly directed at me - I'm sorry that you have taken affront at two (reasonably close) queries about your ship designs. i.e. I actually went to the effort of looking, considering your designs and then asking two questions (one about using smoothing and one about what looked like an issue with triangulation and potential normal issues - I didn't know if it was intentional (since you like angular designs/shapes) so I asked).

If, after 18 months on this forum, your skin is still so thin that you presume genuine interest is "having a go" then it is best I ignore this thread from now on and leave you to it.

mandoman wrote:

Look, I'm not sure how to take your comments, either of you. I ALWAYS check the normals, and for double vertices, and try very hard to get everything to balance the same on each side, as well as center when viewed from front, back, sides, top, and bottom. I use wire frame mode to do this, magnifying as close to each matching point as I can get to make everything balance. When I first started, I didn't know to do that, but have learned a little at a time what to look for. I went back and took a look at the model in Blender, and if there is anything screwy with the normals, than I'll admit that I don't see it. I don't know if you criticize other people's work the way you seem to mine, but it's starting to get old. If you want, I can send you the .obj, and .mtls on the Pitbull, and you can try smoothing it out to your satisfaction. Other than that, the only thing I know to do is to stop designing ships. I was doing it for fun, but after getting heckled I don't know how many times about triangles, and normals, and what ever, it's beginning to lose it's flavor. I have tried my best to take it in good nature, but I'll be the first to admit that I run on a bit of a short fuse. If you're offering to help, I would be happy to accept, but if like commanderxairon you just want to critique, then I'm not interested, Let me know if either of you would like to take a shot at it.

So let me get this straight. You have been watching, and commenting on my ship designs out of real interest? Forgive me for saying that you have a rather abrupt way of showing interest. Two different minds, two different view points. I'm sorry if I insulted you.

mandoman wrote:

MT850Bulldog

MT1012 Pitbull

These are great, they make me think what ships from the Archimedes version of Elite might look like if they were rendered using the computers they used to make the Tron film from the 80's Really nice stuff and they fit into the Ooniverse really well!

That's a really brilliant tip from Zieman regarding the edge flow. I'm not sure what 3d modelling program you're using but have a look to see if there are any commands to weld verticies or 'dissolve' edges, these are both good cleanup tools if you end up with problem 'crumply' looking polygons, you can usually merge away all the problem polygons and end up with nicer smoother surfaces

It IS a brilliant idea, and I went to check out how to do it with Blender. The two main things were "Smooth", and "Bevel". Both have a profound effect on the model, or what ever part of the model used on. However, both modifiers also changed not only the rounded edges, and rippled edges, they also caused some very undesirable side effects. For instance, I have used the "Smooth" modifier before, and learned early on that you need to apply it to each individual part you intend to smooth, before trying to add it to the overall model. If you don't, the model pulls apart, and has to be reintegrated before exporting. That is often a real trick, because the reintegrated model looks together in "Edit" mode, but not in "Object" mode, so you have to mess around with it till it looks right in "Object" mode, as that is the final definer of the complete model. I think. I should ask Staer9 about it to be sure.

The "Bevel" modifier I have not used before. It does seem to smooth down the rippled edges, but it has an extremely unwanted side effect. When applied, whether to a single edge, or to a complete model, it adds vertices, and faces that weren't there before. In the case of the completed model I tried it on, when applied to the whole model, it became so loaded with vertex points, edges, and faces that it was like I was making a model ten times the size. My CPU about went bonkers until I undid the "Bevel" modifier on the ship. I'll ask Staer9 about that as well, as he may have a trick, or two up his sleeve to counteract those effects.

Either way, what it comes down to is that the modifiers needed to solve the undesirable ripples, and triangles basically also change the model to something I had not intended to make. That's not only frustrating, but unacceptable to me. I'll keep looking into it, though. Don't expect to see new versions of my ships any time soon, with all the edges, and rounded surfaces smoothed, though.

The MT650Terrier is the smallest in the MT series. It's primary role is fighter/escort, though it has also been assigned the role of Police. It isn't as fast as it's larger kin, nor does it pack quite as much weapon power, or number of weapons, but when I took it out to face down a few pirates, I was able to hold my own, especially with help from strategically placed missile launches. I also tried to take some of the advice given, and I think I smoothed this one out a lot more. I creased the edges, and used the "Smooth" modifier, so it is a little cleaner than the others. I have screen shots of the ship, but for some reason I can't get them to post up on here. It says that they exceed 1000 pixels in width, which I don't understand as they are no different than any other image I've posted on this forum. I'll try to get it figured out.

Mandoman are you running Windows ?

If so one possible easy option to check the size of your screenshot and amend it to a suitable size if needed would be to: -

1) Open your picture up in Paint.
2) Click the resize button.
3) Select pixels.
4) Check if either the horizontal or vertical number of pixels shown is greater than 1000.
5) If so reduce the number of horizontal or vertical pixels shown to 1000 or less (But keep the maintain aspect ratio box ticked).

Hope that this helps

No, I use Fuduntu Linux. I'm messing with them using Gimp, and Shotwell. I don't understand why these are so much bigger than anything else I have posted, as I use the very same measures taking the screen shots.