Oolite Bulletins

phkb wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:46 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:20 pm

Life Support (Types 1-6) Bioregenerative cyanobacterial substrate synthesiser, Radioisotopic Thermoelectric Generator Cooling Manager, Water Coolant Loop System, Diluent gas eliminator

In these examples, should each level require all subcomponents? Also, are you imagining having to purchase the required components for every upgrade, or as a once-off purchase? (ie. you only need to purchase 1 Bioregenerative cyanobacterial substrate synthesiser, which is re-used in any subsequent upgrade?)

Not my thinking.

This was my idea:
Life Support:
Type 1: costs u and buy 2 machinery
Type 2: costs v and buy 2 machinery and a Bioregenerative cyanobacterial substrate synthesiser from either planet x or planet y
Type 3: costs w and buy 3 machinery
Type 4: costs x and buy 1 machinery and a Radioisotopic Thermoelectric Generator Cooling Manager & a Water Coolant Loop System
Type 5: costs y and buy 4 machinery and a second Bioregenerative cyanobacterial substrate synthesiser
Type 6: costs z and buy a grade 2 Water Coolant Loop System costing 100cr from planet c or 75cr from planet d (more distant)

But it is your hard work. All I've done is attempt a collation of suitably obscure polysyllabic nomenclature... Totally up to you what you do with it!

Not too sure I've got any good ideas for "TL3" or "space expansions" though!

And not too sure how best to buy the stuff. Possibly via F4 ship-station Station Interface: Murgh Enterprises Office? Griff Industries Office? And a delay until the item is brought up from the planet surface - unless you want to go down and pick it up yourself...

Extracted from Random Hits (descriptions.plist - lines 12121-12162 - obviously irrelevant lines omitted):

"solar wind converters",
"CorCom trading computers",
"HiFlux chromon alloys",
"Arcturan Megaweed",
"HoloFac messaging systems",
"Tri-Axial grid maps",
"service satellites",
"AutoCom communicators",
"frozen bladderlash products",
"Arcturan Burstweed",
"...ian tobacco",
"...ian incubation pods",
"Thru-Vis cameras",
"energy storage cells",
"Silastoplaston fibres",
"Phlaschgyt pulse lasers",
"ManoLife life support systems",
"...ian soylent green",
"spam luncheon meat"

This has now been worked into the list on the previous page

Hello,

When trying to purchase or pirate myself a rock hermit, nothing happens in the game (either after submitting the offer - credits are deducted and basic F4 screen is back with no decline message, or getting a surrender confirmation on comms). The log at this moment returns the following:

[script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType]: ***** JavaScript exception (Hermitage_ForSale 0.7.3): TypeError: this._stationUpgrades[upgr] is undefined
[script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType]: ***** JavaScript exception (BulletinBoardSystem 2.1): TypeError: worldScripts[this._data.worldScript] is undefined

(this is a purchase case, done on a fresh installation with bare minimum OXPs required)

Please advice.

zx_cb wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 2:56 am

[script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType]: ***** JavaScript exception (Hermitage_ForSale 0.7.3): TypeError: this._stationUpgrades[upgr] is undefined
[script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType]: ***** JavaScript exception (BulletinBoardSystem 2.1): TypeError: worldScripts[this._data.worldScript] is undefined

Thanks for the test and debug info. Looks like a bug. I'll check it out and report back.

zx_cb wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 2:56 am

Hello

Welcome to the merry throng!

Hoping that you enjoy the experience...

Have you just discovered us, or have you been following things for some time now?

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 6:36 am

Have you just discovered us, or have you been following things for some time now?

Both are true. Though having never posted on the boards, I`ve played the original on ZX Spectrum back in the early nineties from (and saving onto) audio cassettes, then FFE on PC, then Oolite in early 2010s. Recently got myself a nice X56, so was eager to retry everything joystickable from the past, naturally Oolite came among the first along with X-Wing and TIE Fighter series.

It was great to see that the project has since evolved greatly with modern graphics and a trove of complex OXPs with new mechanics and even whole game modes.

Thanks for the warm welcome, including the PM! :)

Welcome aboard, Commander!

OK,version 0.7.4 is now available (same link as before), which should address the errors you've noted. Thanks again for the report, and welcome to our merry throng!

phkb wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:13 pm

OK,version 0.7.4 is now available (same link as before), which should address the errors you've noted. Thanks again for the report, and welcome to our merry throng!

Thanks, tried that out, confirm purchase is working (almost) as intended. Script creates the mission under "Bulletin Board Missions" on F4 screen, it completes ok and transfers RH ownership, but doesn`t adds it to F5F5 screen - minor inconvenience, just noting it.

(For the sake of my self-education - why the previous hermitage_forsale version was calling something that wasn`t even mentioned in it and what you did to sort it out? If you have time, please)

Things to mention right away:

1. Storage script hiccups on large quantities of per-kg defined items. Over my career I have amassed slightly under a ton (800-something kilogram units) of both Gold and Platinum, mainly blasting Thargoids. It splits them in multiple batches generating over-screen-long list of ship cargo, allows no selection and exits on Return key. Here`s corresponding log entry:

[script.javaScript.exception.ooliteDefined]: ***** JavaScript exception (Hermitage_Storage 0.7.4): Error: Native exception: Range location + length too great

2. After some use, I guess the trigger is accessing Station Upgrades menu on F3 screen, it doesn`t open Station Functions submenu in Rock Hermit Management from F4 screen, just returning me back to it (general F4, that is). Log says at this moment:

[script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType]: ***** JavaScript exception (Hermitage_Management 0.7.4): TypeError: upgrades.value is undefined

3. Bought station upgrades are installed incorrectly. Some may be doubled or tripled, while still being highlighted blue on F3 and listed as "completion imminent" in "pending construction" submenu, some are just never installed (the latter I had particularly with Life Support 2 for two times). My best guess is that this log entry is related to it:

[script.javaScript.exception.notFunction]: ***** JavaScript exception (Hermitage_Upgrades 0.7.4): TypeError: this._hm.$getUpgradeIDByKey is not a function

as it keeps appearing for the rest of the session after no obvious action from me and reads somewhat like it

I will also provide a couple of overall balancing thoughts in later post

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 2:17 am

For the sake of my self-education - why the previous hermitage_forsale version was calling something that wasn`t even mentioned in it and what you did to sort it out? If you have time, please

The error was a subtle Javascript bug in the this.$newRecord routine, in the hermitage_main.js file, which is called by the hermitage_forsale.js file. This line was the problem. The fix was to do this:

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 2:17 am

but doesn`t adds it to F5F5 screen - minor inconvenience, just noting it.

Should be an easy fix. I'm on it.

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 2:17 am

[script.javaScript.exception.ooliteDefined]: ***** JavaScript exception (Hermitage_Storage 0.7.4): Error: Native exception: Range location + length too great

Looks like a bug. Not sure how to approach it, though - the next version I'm working on removes the economy element from commodites, which is probably what is feeding into this one. I'll see if I can reproduce it with the current code, and if not, I'll try backtracking to the version you have and see if I can make it happen there. I'll let you know how I get on.

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 2:17 am

[script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType]: ***** JavaScript exception (Hermitage_Management 0.7.4): TypeError: upgrades.value is undefined

Hmm, that's a new one. I'll investigate.

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 2:17 am

Bought station upgrades are installed incorrectly. Some may be doubled or tripled, while still being highlighted blue on F3 and listed as "completion imminent" in "pending construction" submenu, some are just never installed (the latter I had particularly with Life Support 2 for two times). My best guess is that this log entry is related to it:

[script.javaScript.exception.notFunction]: ***** JavaScript exception (Hermitage_Upgrades 0.7.4): TypeError: this._hm.$getUpgradeIDByKey is not a function

That looks like another bug. Again, investigations have begun.

Thanks for your excellent bug tracking service. Looking forward to further feedback.

That goes.

1. If I`m reading your code right, both transfer of ownership and new TL certification from GalCop are picking a random system within jump range to go for it. I honestly think that should be ditched for reasons:

- Aren`t each GalCop orbital station already present its local (in-system) headquarters and administration offices?

- So say I got my RH in Xexedi system (Corp Ind TL14, the centriest system of sector 1), or Ensoreus (Corp Ind TL12, much closer to starting location and a generally good place to do business), and for the sake of travelling to "sector administration" it could require to go to Laenin (Poor Agr Comm TL4) or even Ararus (Poor Agr Anarchy TL5, close to Ensoreus, perfect pirate farm). That seems just implausible.

- Even so, what could be a fun trip there and back with some new frags on the way in the main ship, would be at least a tedious chore in sans-injectors Adder, closer to downright suicide if it`s an Anarchy or Feudal. Forcing the player to do this *each time* in under-equipped ship not only takes big way from hermit management, but can easily just end their career outright.

2. The whole concept of certain TL of goods required to buy upgrades is interesting but has its logical breakdowns.

- Say I ripped a bunch of Thargoids in deliberate misjump and got tons of alloys and precious metals. What is their TL, and how can they be good for a Mineral Refinery (or anything else) since they are alien alloys?

- Someone blasted a trader exiting witchspace in low-TL Anarchy system, I killed them and scooped his Computers and Machinery. The game will register them as originating from that system, though he bought them elsewhere and they even couldn`t be produced in that system in the first place.

- Aren`t the game markets operate under assumption that everything tradeable is already of certain quality, manufactured to a minimum standard? That`s the basic thought for different prices for goods in systems of very different Tech and Economy levels - economies will pay more for things they can`t produce themselves, and sell cheaper things that are abundant, but in game-simplified economy model there`s no such thing as "better computers" or "inferior alloys".

This latter point probably was already discussed, to me it seems that your TL-dependent model will require major rework of basic game economics and trade and is not ready to be implemented in a station manager simulator based on existing rules.

3. Station Upgrades menu has installation time listed for every component, but it seems you simplified it later to 60-seconds-for-everything. The original, I think, should be preserved for realism and to engage the player in actual mining or sun-skimming activities, but maybe also you could add F3 screen purchasable "items" that cost nothing but advance time, say, 1, 2, 4, 8 and 16 hours - to let the player remain on station and within system but wait off upgrade completion time or just see how business goes.

4. Are hired miners just *exist* and produce certain mineral amounts from time to time, or they are actual ships that are supposed to undock and do their thing? Because I found these lines in a log that may point to it not working as intended:

[Hermitage_Station_Script]: ship docked [Ship "Miner Team Leader" position: (-207645, -91618, 512662) scanClass: CLASS_NEUTRAL status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT]
[script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType]: ***** JavaScript exception (Hermitage_Station_Script 0.7.4): TypeError: whom.pilot is undefined

That happened at the moment I hired a guy in a Miner Team Leader ship to do the mining :)

5. One general thought, thay you may or may not had in mind when creating the Hermitage. For me personally, its MAJOR selling point was a ship hangar, with ability to switch ships. After certain amount of trading and pirate hunting and hired killing and then naval battles I (or a general player, I assume) would want to do just that - get a home port, then get in an Asp or Fer-De-lance and ramp my rating or get a Boa and haul cargo or play space-Uber - become even more free in our play choices, not being tied to one purpose-built ship, especially when we CAN afford not to be.

(I know there is Hyperspace Hangar OXP that does similar things. But - I can believe in having a personal hollowed-out asteroid in the void to call home, and I do not believe in some space-and-numbers magic that just *allows* it. Taking it further, why even bother then - I could just go to my savefile, get myself a gazillion credits or a ship_key and have anything in an instant.)

So my point here is - your OXP is a wonderful idea in a way that you may not imagined it. I wish it would work flawless in all its aspects one day :)

Sorry for long ramblings. Hope something helps.

(edit: while I was writing this you replied to my previous post, so consider entry two in this one irrelevant)

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:25 am

I honestly think that should be ditched for reasons:

I'd like to, but I'm trying to maintain the *one thing* you MUST be able to do at your own Hermitage, which is to be able to save your game. In order to do that, the Rock Hermit has to be spawned in a certain way, and once spawned, some properties of the entity can't be changed without respawning it. And as soon as you respawn it, you can't save your game at the Rock Hermit until you leave the system and come back again. So, to work around that limitation, I put in some (rather tenuous) in-game logic for why you have to fly to a local system and come back. Not ideal, but the only way to solve the issue.

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:25 am

Even so, what could be a fun trip there and back with some new frags on the way in the main ship, would be at least a tedious chore in sans-injectors Adder, closer to downright suicide if it`s an Anarchy or Feudal. Forcing the player to do this *each time* in under-equipped ship not only takes big way from hermit management, but can easily just end their career outright.

Which is a fair call. I can certainly adjust the selection process to find safer systems.

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:25 am

The whole concept of certain TL of goods required to buy upgrades is interesting but has its logical breakdowns.

It was an experiment, but as you have noted, it has limitations, which is why I'm removing it from the next version.

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:25 am

Station Upgrades menu has installation time listed for every component, but it seems you simplified it later to 60-seconds-for-everything.

This is purely for testing. If you look at the "hermitage_upgrades.js" file, near the top you should see two lines like this: The "_immediateInstall" is set to true, so you don't have to wait around for your upgrade to show up. Speeds things up for testing. To turn this off, change this value from "true" to "false".

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:25 am

Are hired miners just *exist* and produce certain mineral amounts from time to time, or they are actual ships that are supposed to undock and do their thing?

They should be real ships that launch and dock. The errors suggest I've got a bug somewhere. Thanks for finding it!

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:25 am

One general thought, thay you may or may not had in mind when creating the Hermitage. For me personally, its MAJOR selling point was a ship hangar, with ability to switch ships. After certain amount of trading and pirate hunting and hired killing and then naval battles I (or a general player, I assume) would want to do just that - get a home port, then get in an Asp or Fer-De-lance and ramp my rating or get a Boa and haul cargo or play space-Uber - become even more free in our play choices, not being tied to one purpose-built ship, especially when we CAN afford not to be.

That was certainly the idea. If you use one of the starting scenarios, getting to that point is going to take some time, but if you add Hermitage to your normal game, and then find a Hermitage to buy, you will end up with two ships - your original ship, and a mining vessel that's part of the Hermitage (or you should - I'll have to check and make sure). If you can get your Hermitage to a reasonably self-sufficient state (with paid miners doing the actual mining, all that jazz), you should be able to head off in your FdL and do your thing, or jump into your Boa and trade for your life. I've included the option to purchase most of the core player-flyable ships as a "station" upgrade, but I guess you're thinking more along the lines of finding a ship at a main station and buying that one to add to your collection. This area probably needs some work to get it flexible enough for all scenarios.

As you've discovered, it's still in a pretty rough shape at the moment, and I'd like to get things stable and playable in the core gameplay (ie owning and operating a Rock Hermit hands on), and afterwards look at ways of enhancing the ship hangar component.

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:25 am

I wish it would work flawless in all its aspects one day

Me too! But these reports are great and will help me a bundle in getting things bug free eventually.

Just noticed this one

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:25 am

maybe also you could add F3 screen purchasable "items" that cost nothing but advance time, say, 1, 2, 4, 8 and 16 hours - to let the player remain on station and within system but wait off upgrade completion time or just see how business goes.

which is a neat idea. Isn't hard to implement, but I'll have to consider the broader implications. Thanks for the suggestion.

phkb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:52 am

But these reports are great and will help me a bundle in getting things bug free eventually.

I will also get my hands on your Ship Configuration (also wonderful, by the way - more money sinks rewarding player with much higher spec ship than standard, even starting Cobra, well upgraded, could give many a run for their money)

Heat Sinks seem to add heat and destroy me instead of cooling, so I switched them to manual and watch CT carefully, the fact that upgrade price is reverse proportional to system TL should be mentioned, and standard power-to-mass figures seem to be much lower than intended, with Class 2 components not providing specified speed and maneuverability, but that needs extensive testing and may require some shipdata_overrides

zx_cb wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 4:06 am

Heat Sinks seem to add heat and destroy me instead of cooling

Wow! I think from a technical point of view the auto-Heat sink process is probably not firing so heat is never dissipated and, then, well, you know... boom. I'll check that one out as well.