Oolite Bulletins

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:49 pm

arquebus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:43 pm

Ain't nobody got time for not having injectors in the beginning.

Aah... not quite true, methinks...

Well, yes, if you're taking the joke literally.

But I think it *is* fair to say that a sizable number of players these days prefer gameplay affordances that don't require them to spend significant amounts of time doing literally nothing. It's one of the central complaints about our "baby sibling" game Elite Dangerous: "Why does it take so long to get anywhere? What kind of fun am I having just staring at the screen?" Oolite isn't quite that bad - isn't *nearly* that bad - but it has elements of it. And given that injectors are *so* easy to get, it seems unnecessary that they're not provided at the start. I want to reduce friction to loving the game, and this is a big blob of gum.

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:01 pm

3) It's got issues for sure but food/liquor/furs (depending on finances) or alloys/machinery/computers (same reason) just requires a starting hint I think.

That's still not quite enough, though, because the game doesn't record or present what you paid for the goods in your cargo. You have to *write it down.* It's 2021, we're well past the point where games requiring you to have a pencil and paper handy is an acceptable limitation.

arquebus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:07 pm

That's still not quite enough, though, because the game doesn't record or present what you paid for the goods in your cargo. You have to *write it down.* It's 2021, we're well past the point where games requiring you to have a pencil and paper handy is an acceptable limitation.

So you're thinking more like a log? Less how do I make money and more how much money am I making?

Well, anyway, I've said my piece. We all know where I stand and what my arguments are. As I said above, I'm not the target audience for my recommended changes, so their presence or absence isn't going to impact my love for the game. But I am an "evangelist" at heart when it comes to things I love, and I believe anything that makes it easier to get people hooked is worth thinking about.

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:09 pm

So you're thinking more like a log? Less how do I make money and more how much money am I making?

A log would actually be great - it's one of the best features of Astrox Imperium (another indie game I love). Anything that the game can do to keep the player focused forward, playing the game. As much data (about the "current game", not just the "game universe") as makes sense should be made available to the player *within* the game itself. Where have I been? What have I done? Why the heck am I carrying that? What was I doing the last time I exited the game, that I've now forgotten a week later and maybe I've lost track just enough that I don't bother continuing my save and just end up starting over? Logs are *fantastic.*

arquebus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:10 pm

Well, anyway, I've said my piece. We all know where I stand and what my arguments are. As I said above, I'm not the target audience for my recommended changes, so their presence or absence isn't going to impact my love for the game. But I am an "evangelist" at heart when it comes to things I love, and I believe anything that makes it easier to get people hooked is worth thinking about.

We could try offering world peace... by the usual route of course: violence

Become a bounty hunter!

Majestically prowl the space-lanes.
Be admired by all.
Feared by many.
And self-righteously cleanse the galaxy of 'scum' *

* by which we of course mean anyone who sees things differently to you

[In case it isn't obvious, the above is a silly diversion and not a critique of anyone's opinions expressed up-thread]

"Why don't *I* get an Imperial March when *I* come into a room?"

Redspear: I'm becoming more and more interested in your particular cocktail of oxp's.

Which ones do you play with - and why? What are you looking for in your game?

arquebus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:26 pm

"Why don't *I* get an Imperial March when *I* come into a room?"

?

Don't you mean a 23-gun arquebus salute?

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:30 pm

Don't you mean a 23-gun arquebus salute?

Those things are notoriously inaccurate, I'd be afraid of shooting someone's eye out.

arquebus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:26 pm

"Why don't *I* get an Imperial March when *I* come into a room?"

We'll double our efforts.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:29 pm

Redspear: I'm becoming more and more interested in your particular cocktail of oxp's.

Which ones do you play with - and why? What are you looking for in your game?

1. A hodge-podge of half bakery that really might turn into something if I ever get round to it.

2. Because other concerns regularly distract me... and also because tweakery seems to be part of my nature.

3.

• Way back when I always thought the manual offered much more than the game in elite (which was both figuratively and literally true if you had the spectrum version), so much of what I've written has been to try to address that.
• To try to make the game less slow but also draw out the aquisitional (I think that's a word) part of the game without just adding more equipment.
• And also trying to address 'quirks' in the design that conflict with my preferences.

Apologies if that's a crappy answer but putting it in a nutshell perhaps isn't my forte.

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:45 pm

1. A hodge-podge of half bakery that really might turn into something if I ever get round to it.

2. Because other concerns regularly distract me... and also because tweakery seems to be part of my nature.

3.

• Way back when I always thought the manual offered much more than the game in elite (which was both figuratively and literally true if you had the spectrum version), so much of what I've written has been to try to address that.
• To try to make the game less slow but also draw out the acquisitional (I think that's a word) part of the game without just adding more equipment.
• And also trying to address 'quirks' in the design that conflict with my preferences.

Umm... If I said that you are trying to recreate an idealised (lore-based?) version of Classic Elite, would I be doing you an injustice?

And to "draw out the acquisitional part of the game without just adding more equipment" sounds very intriguing. Any chance of some more detail?

arquebus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:44 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:30 pm

Don't you mean a 23-gun arquebus salute?

Those things are notoriously inaccurate, I'd be afraid of shooting someone's eye out.

For a salute, one always loads the weapons with blanks...

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:51 pm

Umm... If I said that you are trying to recreate an idealised (lore-based?) version of Classic Elite, would I be doing you an injustice?

Well, er, maybe... I'm quite happy to drop lore that doesn't suit me but I am trying to make and improve upon the game I imagined in my once pre-pubescent head.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:51 pm

And to "draw out the acquisitional part of the game without just adding more equipment" sounds very intriguing. Any chance of some more detail?

Once you've bought all there is to save up for then there are missions and... not much else really.

Oolite improved things over Elite in that respect (and purists perhaps shouldn't forget that contracts and buying other ships were added without complaint AFAIK) but the problem remains and I experienced it in Elite. I got to dangerous (the rating rather than the game) and stopped giving a fig.

So if that's the problem then fixing it means either reducing profits, increasing costs or distracting the player (e.g. earlier missions).

• Putting up equipment costs can restrict choice and very early game everything is expensive (so I generally don't favour this)
• The large cargo bay was a mistake IMHO as its purchase reduces the time spent in this phase of the game and there was no good reason for the player not to purchase it.
• Starting in a lesser ship than the mk III would appear to be a 'no-brainer' here but mass-lock and game speed is an issue (and consequently why I'm all over it).
• Having more equipment occupy cargo space also slows progression.
• I'm not really ready to write missions yet but I can muster the odd distraction (e.g. making sunskimming more rewarding albeit not financially so).

You could also generate new game mechanics for players who have gotten that far. The Hermitage OXP (I think that's what it's called?) where you can run a Rock Hermit facility would be the sort of thing that could bring fresh experiences to the late game. Perhaps you could become the governor of a planet, or a city on a planet? And maybe now you have to start gathering resources from far-flung places to feed the requirements of large public works projects at your home base.