Oolite Bulletins

Pleb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:03 pm

So by customisable jump distances I mean hyperdrives that can have different jump ranges, a bit like in Frontier or E:D. This would of course break the base game in Oolite, because because game works around the premise of 7 light years being the limit. But for scenarios involving a larger galaxy this would be a great feature to have. Again, changing the number of galaxies/systems and the size of galaxies would break the base game as the base game needs these things to be constant, but for new scenarios this would be a brilliant feature. I'm fairly certain the scenario feature was added after I came up with my code hacks, which actually if you sift through the forums I originally did much earlier than even 2014, so back then this would have (possibly) had an impact on the base game but I don't think that would be the case now thanks to the scenario feature.

I'm going to polish up my generator so that it can at least show some examples and then I'll post up some results and I'll put the code onto a public github repo. The next step after I've got it successfully generating standard oolite galaxies, will be to start implementing the features that allow uninhabited systems, factions, realistic suns (no green ones!), multi planet systems with realistic positions and planet types (rocky, icy, gas, etc...) and so on!

EDIT: Also the hidden systems is already a feature in Oolite, so this is already possible.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:40 pm

Redspear came out with a Hyperdrives OXP which features different jump ranges (and I'm sure that Phkb's Ship Configuration OXP does so too). But one starts with a 5.5ly jump and then works up. What is interesting is the effect on galaxial geography (Sorry - "geo"-graphy has to be the wrong word for this), the islands and penisulae which slowly emerge from the mainland as the shoreline advances with the decreased jump ranges (unless one can hitch a lift with somebody with a better hyperdrive).

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:40 pm

Day's Diplomancy OXP has a version of faction implementation with the Commies all ganging up together (and probably others too - I just noticed the commies near Digebiti and near Qubeen). Strangers World OXP suite does the multi-planet systems with realistic positions and planet types.

Pleb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:11 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:40 pm

Redspear came out with a Hyperdrives OXP which features different jump ranges (and I'm sure that Phkb's Ship Configuration OXP does so too). But one starts with a 5.5ly jump and then works up. What is interesting is the effect on galaxial geography (Sorry - "geo"-graphy has to be the wrong word for this), the islands and penisulae which slowly emerge from the mainland as the shoreline advances with the decreased jump ranges (unless one can hitch a lift with somebody with a better hyperdrive).

Phkb's OXP only deals with the countdown timer, not the fuel/jump limit. And Redspear's OXP is great, but they are still limited by the 7 light year max jump (which is fine for the most part but if your map is huge then 7 light years may be an issue...not to sure about this maybe 7 light years is ok...). What I'm not sure about about cannot test yet as on phone atm, is whather when drawing the available routes to be taken in the long range chart, does the chart take your fuel limit into consideration or does it always draw the lines based on the premise that all engines can travel 7 light years? If not would be good to get it to draw the lines based on your ship's fuel capabilities.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:40 pm

Day's Diplomancy OXP has a version of faction implementation with the Commies all ganging up together (and probably others too - I just noticed the commies near Digebiti and near Qubeen). Strangers World OXP suite does the multi-planet systems with realistic positions and planet types.

For factions and planets I have an idea in mind but I will check these out.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:07 pm

If the map is huge, then 7ly is probably not quite so crucial.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:39 pm

Bugging Redspear until he sees Red? Speak!

Pleb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:39 pm

Cim provided some of that framework and even made SOTL to show it could be done, but that fact that no one continued that work I took to mean people weren't interested.

Pleb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:11 pm

still limited by the 7 light year max jump (which is fine for the most part but if your map is huge then 7 light years may be an issue...not to sure about this maybe 7 light years is ok...).

Pleb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:18 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:07 pm

If the map is huge, then 7ly is probably not quite so crucial.

Yeah exceeding the 7 light years isn't critical and will probably be fine to be honest, I was thinking more about whether the game updates the hyperlanes based on how much fuel the ship can carry or whether its always drawn as being 7 light years regardless. I'll have to test this tomorrow and see!

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:34 pm

It was something I was very interested in but there was IIRC one rather vague wiki page and a 'poke under the hood' invite at a time when my coding was even worse that it is now. For me, it was rather like breaking into an old BASIC programme if you didn't know BASIC - you'd probably get there but it would be a bit of a slog.

I tried it at a time when I didn't have much time and consequently failed to invest the necessary time that I didn't have (...I think that makes sense...)

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:34 pm

Assuming that if you do have a larger map then you're making source code changes therefore increasing the 7LY limit is entirely doable. It certainly was previously because I've tried it and done it. It only makes sense in larger galaxies however (IMHO) and even then a larger galaxy with a correspondingly larger jump range may as well just be a regular sized but crowded galaxy. If galaxy size doesn't increase dispropotionately to jump range then I don't see the difference between the two from a gameplay perspective (more expensive fuel perhaps?)

Pleb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:59 pm

Oh I know it can be changed as I've done it myself but I'm sure it will be fine to leave it alone. Its more the hyperlane the game draws I wanted to know if it changed based on how much fuel the ship could carry or whether it is still always drawn as being 7 light years.

Redspear wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:30 am

Pleb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:59 pm

Oh I know it can be changed as I've done it myself but I'm sure it will be fine to leave it alone. Its more the hyperlane the game draws I wanted to know if it changed based on how much fuel the ship could carry or whether it is still always drawn as being 7 light years.

I see.

From memory it was fine. The main 'problem' that I found with having ships with different jump ranges was that the advanced navigation array assuming the max fuel limit equalled the player ship limit (the latter of which I was fudging). I considered adjusting the ANA to adjust to plot according to current player fuel but that's not perfect either.

If max player fuel were set to something like: 4.0 + AFC (additional fuel capacity) and AFC was given a default of 3.0 but could be defined in shipdata.plist then that could work a treat. Might want to put a cap on AFC of, for example, 8.0 (but on the other hand, why bother there are other ways to UBER jump distance: wormhole creation/teleport/etc.).

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:36 am

Gentlemen: I'd like to put up a map on our wiki showing how the jump range affects the geography - showing the contours of Galaxy 1 when the jump range is, say 5ly. Can I presume from your dialogue that this is currently impossible?

Reference: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Geography

Pleb wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:10 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:36 am

Gentlemen: I'd like to put up a map on our wiki showing how the jump range affects the geography - showing the contours of Galaxy 1 when the jump range is, say 5ly. Can I presume from your dialogue that this is currently impossible?

Reference: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Geography

So the images I put up years ago showing connectivity if it was 3 light years or 5 light years were made by modifying the source. The hyperlanes drawn on the Galactic map are always drawn assuming 7 light years is the max distance for all jumps.

I've put up a beta release of my galaxy generator. Its by no means perfect or finished but feel free to mess about with it. Once I've perfected it generating standard oolite galaxies I will move on to the fun part of generating new types of galaxies!