RFC: Fancy classics

[Simon B]

@Selezen: you mean something like this:

... sorry- no skin.

I'm picturing the fdl as a rich kids toy boat rather than a serious trader. A lux cabin cruiser cum super-yacht. Bearing in mind that the FDL does not come with any births by default, the cabin in question is 10.1m wide, 2.4m tall, and almost 14m long. Those windows are 1m tall by 3m wide - each. This model comes with trumble-fur upholstery, plush carpeting, full entertainment suite and an inertia-compensated jacuzzi.

If sir finds this too, um, cramped, for sirs taste, perhaps we can direct sir to our fine display of Boa class Cruisers or perhaps a custom 120 birth Anaconda Liner featuring the latest "aerospace hanger" C&C deck with personal Intergalactic Olympic pool and full size Zero G Cricket pitch?

Though perhaps it does not boast these modest accroutiments, I personally prefer our Fer de Lance model for the superior styling and performance which is packed in to it's, admitedly, modest dimentions - Sir, the FDL has a length of 72m, beam 42m and draft of 14m - overall displacement is 8000 metric tonnes, so you can land in an ocean and she will float[1].

Thank you Sir, Tianvecard is most acceptable. And may I say, your carapace is a particularly scintilating blue today...

>>> So if that's out of the way?

Scale is somewhat subjective in Oolite - the actual dimentions of a model is more for art than science. Still, you'll note that my cabin windows ore much less generous than the classics. Maybe it's just me but I think a 3-story view port is pushing it.

[1] 98% submerged with the nose pointing at the sky - wallow, is more like it. I don't imagine it will be fun, but who knows what beetles like?

[Simon B]

Cobra Mk 1
OK folks - here it is ... the first attempt at a cobra. For this one I've been conservative.

... I don't think it's right.

It has a lot of the features I would like, but it's too slavish to the "correct" lines. I'm tempted to do it as a winged model like the fighters, but that would be too non-trader. This is supposed to be a cheap freighter.

Perhaps it just needs to be grittier, like Griffs cobras?

[DaddyHoggy]

I like the potential mods to the FDL...

Re: CMk1 - It's a bit beetle like - it looks like the centre line of a beetle body with a carapace that might crack open at any moment to reveal wings. Also, the original CMk1s angles seemed to run fore to aft whereas your neo version the angles feel if they run from the centre line out to the port and starboard. I think this is why it feels wrong - it's less about the shape and the dimensions rather than somehow losing that blunt nosed wedge feel the original cobby 1 had. Does any of that waffle make sense?

However, it's a fantastic looking ship - I just don't think its a Cobby MK1

[DaddyHoggy]

With regards to the FDL - if the fatter FDL became the "standard" new version then perhaps your original concept could become the FDL-Mk2 or the FDL Interceptor - The super-rich bounty hunters luxury killing machine - just up the specs a tiny bit over the original...

[Selezen]

@Selezen: you mean something like this:

... sorry- no skin.

Yep, pretty much! One small addition though, would be semi recessed pods similar to you what you had before, located thus (blue lines):



The rest of your comments are all good, IMO!!!

[ClymAngus]

You know that really looks like the scorpio from blakes7

It's a pity that the stats for Fer de Lance are so gray, you've got the makings of a ship with a look that far outweights it's capabilities there.

Still, lovely work.

PS we really need to do this : http://www.merzo.net/
for our stuff.

[Lestradae]

The more I see of Simon's neo ships, the more I could easily imagine them as the new look of Oolite's standard core ships.

Just saying. Perhaps I'm not the only one.

They look great, and are very true to the original look. (Although I'd make the Fer-de-Lance pure sleek again with long side windows without the side engines)

[wackyman465]

Ooh la la!

[CptnEcho]

Cobra Mk 1
OK folks - here it is ... the first attempt at a cobra. For this one I've been conservative.

... I don't think it's right.

It has a lot of the features I would like, but it's too slavish to the "correct" lines. I'm tempted to do it as a winged model like the fighters, but that would be too non-trader. This is supposed to be a cheap freighter.

Perhaps it just needs to be grittier, like Griffs cobras?

Looks a lot like a Cylon Raider from the 1970's television series to me. Therein lies the problem, creating something cool that isn't a rip-off of something else. Your efforts are appreciated. Keep going.

[Simon B]

One small addition though, would be semi recessed pods similar to you what you had before

Ahhh ... more like 1.2, that would call for the longer nacells - you understand that those "pods" are engines?

Fer De Lance: (Second Impression part 3)


Ok - it looks good and fits the lines. There is still the Colonial Viper look to deal with, though, if you were to try representing a CV in the old Elite game, your model would probably come out quite close to the FDL... so we may not be able to avoid it.

Some other tweaks - - -

(from left o right - 2ip2 plain, with a pointy nose, and super-smooth.)

The smoothed model looks very nice, and suggests that setting the smooth attribute may be a good idea. (That model clocks up 786 polygons - but they are mostly not triangles!)

Tried putting the nose-triangle back - widening the bridge of the nose a la Nemisis, but it just ends up looking like it's got a cold.

Tried the method I used on the Python and the Boa ... but it's just too boxy to pull it off. I even tried doing what Scarecrow did with his Angel/Seraphim. The result is very insecty.

In fact, that model [Scarecrow's one] would work for an FDL ... needs an enclosed cockpit.

There are suggestions to keep the first impressions (the slim model) as a gunship, and the point that the actual performance of the ship is not up to the model :)

I get the impression that there is room for more than one FDL in the game?

This could be managed by splitting the current FDLs roles between different types. (Remembering to adjust the probabilities accordingly so systems/roles don't get swamped with them. Some oxp designers forget about that... or need to retake probability 101.)

I could have the single engine job as the standard model - same stats as now.

Putting the engines under the "wings" will increase mass and gain space in the main hull ... increased cargo cap. The big engines (2.3) would be a fast one, but harder to stop. (Typical luxury craft, no brakes.) The stubby engines would be slower, but more manouverable.

Which reminds me - there is a plist item for yaw thrusters - but how does one yaw?

The base stats are not too bad anyway - similar to the fighters, with better mass and energy/recovery-rate. I think the idea is that the Cobra III is supposed to be able to run away, but not easily.

[Simon B]

[Cobra I model] Looks a lot like a Cylon Raider from the 1970's television series to me. Therein lies the problem, creating something cool that isn't a rip-off of something else. Your efforts are appreciated. Keep going. 8)

Well, I understand one of the winners in the "Pimp my Cobra" competition looks like the same worthy ship. For that matter - the basic models also look like that - it will be very hard to avoid.

I seem to be in a creative slump here - so I'm doing some oxp coding and some other little ships then I'll get back to the Cobras.

The idea for the cobras was to consider the craft in three parts - engines, main hull, and a "hood". So Cm3 would have a smooth upper body as a kind of big shield. Cm1 is the previous edition, so it would be more blocky.

However - I could go the fighter way, by interpreting the wide expanse as wings. Cm1 would then favour an upswept wing with radically canted tips (turn the gecko model upside-down), while Cm3 would be body-centered like the sidewinder, with more of a flow around engines. In both cases the main body would have to be fatter - they are freighters.

If I use the Python approach (see post #1) I'll end up with recessed bellies and an armoured look. This would allow chunky texturing like griffs example.

The "hood" method was chosen since it's the one that is different. I could try to average out the last two - producing chunky winged craft which bend on the bottom?

[Disembodied]

(from left o right - 2ip2 plain, with a pointy nose, and super-smooth.)

Very sweet! I'd vote for the top model as the (original?) luxury craft, the second (with the pointy nose and the expanded cargo space) as the bounty hunter/pirate model – it's too expensive, with too little cargo space to be a trader – and the bottom super-smooth version as the FDL-NG speedster.

Which reminds me - there is a plist item for yaw thrusters - but how does one yaw?

From 1.68 there's been a yaw option in the keyconfig.plist – at the moment you don't need any extra equipment to do it. But some of us prefer not to, anyway.

[Simon B]

PS we really need to do this : http://www.merzo.net/
for our stuff.

No we don't!
The Oolite ships are not really intended to be to scale with each other!

But if you insist, the Oolite Gallery has an image of all the standard ships.

[Simon B]

There are so many tweaks now that it is hard to talk about them clearly. Lets get some nomenclature down:

Since these are tentative pre-production designs, under development, I'm calling each incarnation an "impression". Small changes within an impression are "part"s. (Are there no ELP fans here?)

First Impressions:


1.x ships are all long nacelles and narrow upper-hull.
1.1 uses a single, centered, nacelle - losing cargo space.
1.2 uses two nacelles tucked under the arms - the idea was to bring the profile in line with the standard model.

Second Impressions:




2.1 moves the long nacelles to arm-length, with a variation (2.1.1) using stubby nacelles (top-left corner) Should really be 1.3 but the marketing dept wanted a new number ... I notice nobody liked this one ...

Variations are more fluid, mostly working on the overhead look after engaging a design consultant:


2.2 extends the wings forward, making the overhead profile "fatter". Note that the lower-hull (grey) is still the same shape, so is the life-section (the box on top with windows at the front.)

2.2.0-2 are the three variations - std, pointy, super-smooth.


2.3 (fnord) introduces twin underarm nacelles (which happens to the best of us when we forget to shower for years at a time) and has the same three versions: 2.3.0-2 - std, pointy, super-smooth.


Now someone will want to see a poity-super-smooth one...

[Selezen]

As duly appointed design consultant to SB Starliners, I'm happy with the 2.3 version. I like the lines and the overall flow of the ship. Nice.

One question though, about the concept of engine nacelles: the "standard" so far as canonical elite scribblings go has been a "drive sector", indicating a fully integrated drive system. The Imperial Courier was stated in FE2 as being different to the standard by having external nacelles. How does this fit into your design methodology?