Hire Traders

[ZygoUgo]

Ah something for the F4 button at last
It could be the business management screen where you interact with your contractors (portaits) with random occurances, such as;
One of them gets pretty badly shot up and you need to have his equipment repaired
They need to go to a dangerous system and you have to hire them escorts
They might fall I'll and you have to pay for an expensive agency pilot to do the run or pay a hospital bill (dependant on the tech level of the system they're at)
They may at times pick up extra cargo and make more than you were expecting
Maternity leave
They may on very rare occasions be hijacked or held for ransom, very rarely in order to be beleivable
One of them might be lazy and keep pulling sickys (things for you to notice over time and hire and fire as you see fit)
One of them might be stubborn or cowardly and refuse to do a run because of the dangerous system
etc

[Ganelon]

And there ya go! The poster's original idea has now been balanced enough that nobody in their right mind would want it. It'd be enough pain in the neck that any financial benefit from it as an investment would be pretty much futile.

Well, not as if more CR makes much difference in the game except early on, and early on one wouldn't have the spare finances to go buying "extra" ships anyway.

[ZygoUgo]

Wouldn't making endless piles of credits with no real point to having them be ultimately boring?
I was thinking it would add more immersion and entertainment to the world, or perhaps I'm just a bit boring myself
I like a bit of management, the gains to play being another form of random occurances and something to think about, plan, and react to, and be made to laugh by.
And where's the game play without the chance of going bust doing it?
Look at the effort that went into Random Hits, and it has added so much to the game in doing so.
It would add to late gameplay where you're iron assed and killing pirates isn't so challenging any more.
Nooo?

[Ganelon]

Well, it'd be an investment/risk in the first place. It wouldn't be "easy money", considering the Hired Trader could get killed, losing the ship and any cargo that was aboard. It is a risk venture that would take quite a while to pay off it's initial investment before becoming profitable. How much more does it actually need to be "balanced" by adding more difficulties?

It'll take a long time for any trader to make enough to have paid for the initial investment of pretty much any ship that'd make much sense as a trader. Until then, the proposition is running at deficit. Assuming there's at least a small base chance of losing the ship to pirates or whatever on each run it's making, what are the odds of it ever surviving long enough to turn a profit in the first place?

I think the basic idea has some promise, but I think if it's made too complex or too unlikely to ever turn a profit at all or into something that takes more supervision than the player flying their own ship, it'd almost be a whole different game, rather than a possible addition to Oolite.

Just my POV on it, though.

[Switeck]

Hiring trader-wingman into the next system might work -- you pay for their cargo and help them get to the station, which you're going to anyway. Then you and them split the profits of their cargo.
So if the cargo cost 1000 credits and sold for 1500 credits, you'd get 1250 credits and they'd get 250 credits.
Only broke traders would be willing to accept such silly-small payouts, but likewise they're probably the ones that most need an escort to the next station.
Now if they weren't really "broke" but instead spent all their liquid credits on gold/plat/gems...then getting a free escort plus extra profits doesn't sound so bad.
Of course you can only have one such trader-wingman at a time, since you can't legally escort more than 1 ship at a time.

[Zireael]

I suggest 'you pay for half their cargo' and the rest is ok.

[Commander McLane]

Don't forget, however, what experience has taught gamers: escort missions are dreadful, if not done cleverly.

[ZygoUgo]

I suppose my point of veiw is that anything can be good if done right, a game about hoovering a lounge could be good if it had the right elements.
If an idea has negative points, you find reasons/elements to cancel those negatives out, which is why discussion about ideas is good fun.
If the loss of a vessel and or cargo is covered by insurance/business starter's loan (ie Galcop would want to encourage trade, if not only to keep the pirates out-numbered themselves), and the ship is bought under hire purchase, those dull money sinks are gone, and can be replaced by entertaining one's instead, which is why I was more inclined to think of the character/situational occurances instead,they could be varied, funny, tragic and give the whole sense of the universe continuing elswhere a good boost.
One of the best things about Elite/Oolite is the daft creatures and descriptions, I'm not suggesting an expansion to your cargo hold where you simply choose routes, but an income that is balanced by entertaining random occurances that you interact with to a certain degree, and if make the right choice you make money, if done wrong you lose it or annoy your pilots....etc/interrupted rant, didn't quite get to finish

[Switeck]

I suggest 'you pay for half their cargo' and the rest is ok.

Reason why you have to cover for the full cost of the cargo is the trader you're hiring is restricted on where they can go...they have to go dock at the main station.

Were it done as a "regular" cargo contract from the position of the trader rather than the player, the trader would have to pay the up-front costs for the cargo and then get the profits for the contract. THAT would be pointlessly bad from the trader's point of view, because they could instead pay the same amount and get more profit.

But...doing this *SHOULD* increase your cargo contract reputation (by the normal amount for a cargo contract) if the delivery is successful, since you're protecting the NPC trader ship AND the NPC trader ship did not run off with the "free cargo" you just gave them.
(Which implies there's a low chance of the NPC trader ship doing that...)

Going further, to set up such a delivery, you'd probably have to FOLLOW the NPC trader ship through THEIR wormhole to guarantee both ships arriving at the same time. That would at least save you a tiny bit on fuel costs. They could do an intentional misjump to avoid you (but very low chance of that stupid action, like 0.5% ...since it's near-suicide for profit)...or they could dock at another station? (1-10%?)

Maybe the traders you contract with have their cargo reputation mentioned (vaguely?), so you know in advance whether they're likely to desert you.
Cobra 1, 10 tons capacity...Trader of unknown reputation.
Cobra 3, 35 tons capacity...Trader of poor reputation.
Python, 100 tons capacity...Trader of good reputation.
Anaconda, 750 tons capacity...Trader of excellent reputation. (What else would he be doing with an Anaconda?)
Problem is, you can only "fill them up" with cargo from whatever you see on your cargo list...so an Anaconda would likely only get maybe 200 tons of "stuff" or you'd be selling things at a loss.
Might have to limit it to 100 tons max?

[Bugbear]

If the loss of a vessel and or cargo is covered by insurance/business starter's loan (ie Galcop would want to encourage trade, if not only to keep the pirates out-numbered themselves), and the ship is bought under hire purchase, those dull money sinks are gone, and can be replaced by entertaining one's instead, which is why I was more inclined to think of the character/situational occurances instead,they could be varied, funny, tragic and give the whole sense of the universe continuing elswhere a good boost.

If I was GalCop, I'd be putting some conditions on secondary trader ship insurance, such as no coverage if your ship is damaged / destroyed in an Anarchy system (obligatory car analogy - generally, you're not covered if your car is damaged while on a race track)...

And perhaps, limited coverage if you're running illegal goods or if you're legal status is Offender / Fugitive (alternateively, you can pay a higher premium for Offender coverage)

Hmm...time to incorporate OoInsure Ltd

(totally off topic - only one post to go then I'm 100 posts old)

[Zireael]

OOInsure- I think it's worth creating! And I agree with your observations...

[Thargoid]

Oo-Compare? Complete with an opera-singing alien sporting a silly moustache? Or perhaps Coompare the moorket, with over-cute alien rodents?

Paging DaddyHoggy - YAH alert

[Zireael]

Is this idea being worked on?

[Danam22315]

Hello again!
I like the idea of OoInsurance!
Each player would have to pay a certain amount for the year, according to your Combat Rating (your fees could be higher when you begin, and go down as you get better equipment. OR, it would start out small and increase as you got better equipment, to cover the replacement costs.)
I don't like the idea of paying according to your legal status though (I like to make the odd credit selling illegal goods ).
How would the Insurance company know whether or not I was carrying illegal goods?
I also think that by charging more to players that travel to dangerous areas (I have been known to visit the occasional Anarchy) would decrease the trade to that world. What the poor people on the planet? Should they starve because of higher insurance? *** Steps down from soap box ***

Well if my idea of hiring traders cannot work (Although I'll keep working on it), may I suggest a message board on every world regardless of Tech Level, where players can be offered cargo runs, escort runs, or bounties on certain people, like in Privateeer!

[Capt. Murphy]

Well if my idea of hiring traders cannot work (Although I'll keep working on it), may I suggest a message board on every world regardless of Tech Level, where players can be offered cargo runs, escort runs, or bounties on certain people, like in Privateeer!

Not quite what your after, but a combination of Random Hits, Escort Contracts and UPS Courier as OXP's would fill that gap.