[WIP] Wormhole drones!

[Smivs]

just a thought Mauiby, but as this is a bit of a rule-breaker one thing you could do is limit it to very High Tech worlds, maybe just 14 and above, which would seriously limit it's availability. As it's pylon mounted, a potential user could buy one where they could and keep it until it's needed.

[TGHC]

As always I'm a traditionalist, I don't mind rules being bent or broken a little bit when it improves the game, and this could be useful in some circumstances and could be incorporated into a mission that requires a bit of difficulty (like getting somewhere in a ridiculously short time), so I would say limit the number of jumps it can do, make it damned expensive and only available from Tech 14's or above, (galaxies 3,4 and 8 don't have any tech level 15's)

[Fatleaf]

Just a thought! Instead of the number of jumps, could it be done by the distance traveled? As with contracts time is important so to traverse lets say 20Ly could be done in three jumps but to keep in-game time down it is best to do more shorter jumps. So you could have a big circle in the galaxy map and that is you limit. Like I said, just a thought!

[Mauiby de Fug]

Makes sense! It's currently available at TL11+, mainly because there are enough of those about that I can buy them easily for testing and remind myself that it's a high tech thing, but as it's moving out of that stage it's probably time to crank it up higher!

Number of planets with TL14 and higher (without any changes made by oxps) :
1 - 5
2 - 4
3 - 7
4 - 2
5 - 6
6 - 6
7 - 9
8 - 1

'Tis limited in some of those galaxies, so I may try TL13 and higher.

There are two different variants of the drones - one which is optimized to choose the route based on fewest number of jumps, and one which chooses the route based on shortest amount of time taken.

[CheeseRedux]

a bit of a rule-breaker

Personally, I don't see this as any more of a rule-breaker than stuff we already have. Sure, in Real LifeTM terms it's an efficient way to get from A to B, but from an in-game perspective it is vastly outclassed by any combination of Fuel Tanks, Fuel Stations and ConStores.
It may save you the in-universe time it would take to dock at the ConStore to top off your fuel tanks, true. On the other hand, unless the wormhole stays open indefinitely, you are robbed of the opportunity to do some lucrative trading on the side while jumping half across the galaxy to fulfill your delivery contract.
The only real in-game advantage comes along if you go through systems that have neither a Fuel Station nor a ConStore.
And don't forget that it's not exactly flexible: Once you've set it off, it's use it or lose it. No taking a detour in the middle of your route because you found a good deal on the way.

[Okti]

When I had a Uber Equipment topic in the discussions.

If you want to release it as an OXP, then go ahead and release it as an OXP! Sure, some people will think it affects the game balance, and will never use it. Others will!

For example, I like the your idea, but I think it would make the game far too simple, and you'd lose the excitement and risk of not knowing if you'll make it to the station without being accosted by rogues. There is a scanner limit for a reason.

Others will believe it to be very useful, and will rejoice in new-found freedom to target anyone and keep out of other ships' way.

'Tis impossible to cater for everyone, so do what you wish. Those who like it can release it; those who don't don't have to install it in their universe!

Edit: "Those who like it can release it" should be "install it" I need to remember to proofread...

At the end of the day, player chooses to use or not to use equipments by installing or not installing the OXP's.

What we are trying as OXP writers is, using methods, properties and events provided for scripting. If those options are present, we are not breaking the rules of the game in any case.

As I said in an earlier post in this topic, It depends on what role you want to take in oolite is up to you, and your OXP's to install is up to you as well.

For example what I like is to find the ways to complete a long running missions quickly and if I can find any bugs, report to owner of the OXP as soon as possible. That is the reason I wrote LongRangeScanner to locate the entities quickly. That could be done by a dump as well. And the option to move near the selected entity can be achieved by using java console.

I already have an additional equipment which does automated long range jumps to a target system in that OXP, which I released after Mauby de Fugs aproval on an PM.

So you are free to install the OXP's according to your play style.

[Thargoid]

A few other thoughts/options:

• Not only limit it by tech-level, but also have a condition of availability by random chance. So that way you can have it only appear at (for example) 10% of planets with tech level <whatever> or above.
• Alternatively along similar lines, after purchase set a timer running that you cannot buy another one within x days, or x witchspace jumps.
• Have a random chance that things go wrong, for example dump you in interstellar space, dump you in a random system along your route or dump you a huge distance away from the witchpoint in a system along the route and then stop.

The first two can fairly easily be done by scripting and carefully set conditions within equipment.plist. The latter is also now quite possible, although I recall seeing somewhere that System.info.systemsInRange (which may screw things up a bit) was broken in 1.75, although 1.75.1 should be along quite soon to fix that.[/color]

[Commander McLane]

What we are trying as OXP writers is, using methods, properties and events provided for scripting. If those options are present, we are not breaking the rules of the game in any case.

Well, I have written an OXP or two, so I probably am allowed to comment here.

I disagree completely. As you may know, my mantra is balance, and sense. Whatever I script and release as an OXP has to be balanced and (more important, because it's on a much more basic level) has to make sense and be sensible in the world of Oolite. What is needed more than anything else to achieve this is restriction on the part of the OXP writer.

Your position that, 'because the tools are there they can be used in any way and for anything no matter what' (I'm accentuating here to make the point clear) is—frankly spoken—nonsense. Just a small example: the methods provided for scripting allow you to give the player 100,000,000 credits from the onset. That takes just one single line of script. The option is present. Or let me give an even clearer example: There is another option present. You can make the player ELITE by giving him 6400 kills before he ever leaves Lave station for the first time. Again, that's merely one line of script. As the icing on the cake, with just four more lines you can make him having succeeded in all four in-built missions, giving him all the benefits coming from finishing the missions. As far as scripting is concerned, it takes absolutely nothing to achieve that. Does it break the rules of the game in every way? Yes sir, it does, and in the most wall-banging way. But it's all in the methods, properties and events provided for scripting. The options are present.

So yes, the options are present, but not every use of every option is advisable. One use of the options will bring enrichment to the game experience. Another use of the options will be a cheat, plain and simple. Cheating is—by definition—breaking the rules.

Thargoid has, as a matter of fact, already written an OXP which gives the player some money and some rank increase towards ELITE for nothing (among other things). But he has never claimed that it doesn't break the rules. On the contrary, he has clearly marked it as a cheat, in the plainest way possible: he has called it  OoCheat.oxp.

Myself I have written an OXP which gives the player insanely powerful weapons, powerful enough to wipe out enemy ships, whole enemy armadas, in fact  everything in all eight galaxies with just one fingertip. Why have I written it? Because, as you say, the options were present. But don't try for a second to tell me that it doesn't break every single conceivable rule of the game, because it does. The OXP was never meant to be anything else than the living proof that not everything which can be done, should be done; the incarnated repudiation of claims like the one I am quoting above.

I know from experience that in scripting there is inherently a temptation towards cheating. There's no denying it. But—just like in RealLife™—we are called to govern our temptations. Part of the governing is to be honest and call a cheat a cheat. Defending it with an "but it's possible, so it must be good" is a little immature, I find.

<rant mode off>

[Thargoid]

I would also point out the two even more powerful cheating options available, namely debug.OXP/JS console and the singularly most powerful one of all, your text editor of choice (as long as it isn't M$ notepad).

With both of those you can do anything noted above, and mold your commander in any way shape or form that you wish.

Having said that, I take the somewhat more lenient view that if people want something, they will try to do it. I wrote the aforementioned OoCheat simply to see both what could be done in a more structured way, and also to see how many people would download it. The answer to the latter, as of now, is 322. So there is obviously a market for people who want to cheat.

Similarly there is a market for people who want uber ships and just want to fly around and blow the crap out of things (e.g. the Caduceus, the Vortex, the SuperCobra and quite probably several others), and equally going the other way people who want more of a challenge (Smiv's ToughGuys, and even the homebrew method of Iron Man Commanders). The market is certainly there, the Vortex has had 383 downloads and I know the Caduceus is even more popular as for the fairly brief time I hosted it for ClymAngus it had a couple of hundred downloads, and that well after it was an established OXP.

And here I do somewhat disagree with the comments directly above, in that if someone does want a feature or function that I can provide by a bit of scripting work, then why not. As I have done a few times now, I do sometimes write such OXPs (Flight Log, Stellar Serpents, Lave Academy, Hired Guns and Probe spring to mind as examples). If only the person who asked for it ever downloads it and uses it, then fine. Its enjoyable simply to write a bit of script that works and does what you wanted it to do (usually after some harsh language along the way). So yes I could write someone a script to award all the mission completions, or a million credits, or Elite status. But I would not do it, simply because I'd tell them to go hack their save game file with Notepad++ or whatever as it's quicker for both of us.

And arguably many of my OXPs break the rules in some form. The classic one is my most popular one, Planetfall. It is completely against Elite canon, but again there it just seemed daft to me that the only role planets play in the game is as things to try and avoid crashing into. Hence I wrote the thing, and to date around 3,500 downloads have gone against that "game rule" that GalCop doesn't allow planetary landing. But to my view it offers a more varied game with more places to visit, so it got written.

So my 0.2Cr would simply be if it's an OXP that you want to write, then write it. If you care about how many people will download it etc, then gauge opinion etc to see if it will meet that need. But if all you want is to take a challenge to add a feature or item to the available options that people can choose to add to their own personal game experience, then so be it.

[Gimi]

Just can't help it. I need to say something.

I'm pro choice (that didn't quite come out right)

It is up to the player to make Oolite the game what he wants it to be. In that context I have thrown out quite a few OXP's. I have to admit, that when I test oxp's I use the console (a cheat mode really) and lately, also Oocheat to see if an oxp is something I want. I like having a lot of equipment available, but I don't really use much of it.

Every now and then somebody makes an oxp that sort of messes up things (I don't mind, as I just don't install it) and killit.oxp, for example, is one of them. It was never intended to be something you would use while playing (at least I think so) but still, it is available.

When it comes to the wormhole drone, it is something that really fits into my Ooniverse. Technology evolves, and something that can make you travel by consecutive jumps makes sense. Problem is, as we have already identified, it is also potentially game changing and possibly for the worse. The perfect fit for me would be for this to be very restricted, available to the military only, given to you for one ore more specific missions that require them. I don't want to see them for sale, even at the highest tech level. Would be nice though to be able to steal one from the navy and sell it to someone for an indecent amount of money.

If this is something that is made available cheaply and everywhere, I will probably leave it on my virtual shelf. (Would be sad though, as it fits in well with a continuously evolving Ooniverse).

[Commander McLane]

Away from the general musings, back to the OXP at hand.

I have a question: which route does the drone take to your destination? Does it prefer few long jumps or many short jumps? Or has it now preference at all? Or can the user choose?

And I have a remark on semantics. I would not advertise or even mention this OXP in connection to "breaking the 7LY rule". Because it doesn't. This rule is hardcoded, and therefore isn't breakable in Oolite, no matter what. No individual jump longer than 7LY can be made, period. Therefore this choice of words could cause misunderstandings or false expectations.

[CheeseRedux]

There are two different variants of the drones - one which is optimized to choose the route based on fewest number of jumps, and one which chooses the route based on shortest amount of time taken.

[Commander McLane]

There are two different variants of the drones - one which is optimized to choose the route based on fewest number of jumps, and one which chooses the route based on shortest amount of time taken.

Ah, thanks! Somehow I missed that.

[Mauiby de Fug]

Wow! Interesting discussions going on here!

I originally started the oxp as a way of getting to grips with Oolite scripting, and it seemed to be a method that other people hadn't used before. Similarly, in learning how to write the various plists and scripts, I'm much more comfortable poking around the innards of other peoples' oxps. Very useful when it comes to debugging and error finding; inconvenient if you accidentally give yourself spoilers!

My views on oxps Otki has already quoted from another post - people should be free to write what they want, and install what they want. I'm trying here to create a balanced oxp that makes sense to me, and if that fits with what other people like, then even better! Part of the beauty of this game is the world in your head that you can immerse yourself in, create backstories for things. Peoples' suggestions are useful, in that they give insight into alternate ooniverses, and if I can write something that fits into more than my own, then that's a bonus! It also helps me moderate and try to keep balance, or at least, something that remains consistent in my own world. I'm perfectly happy with people tweaking their own copies for a better fit to their own ooniverse.

McLane's comment on semantics and not linking this oxp with "breaking the 7ly rule" is fair, and correct. That was the original idea/challenge I set myself; this is what emerged. There were a few confused people when I originally posted the idea.

[Svengali]

Peoples' suggestions are useful, in that they give insight into alternate ooniverses, and if I can write something that fits into more than my own, then that's a bonus!

Hmm. Not sure about this, just a few thoughts about it.

I think it's not a bonus, it's the goal to aim for. And specially for OXPs that are released and available to the public and not only in your local AddOns folder. Otherwise we'll end with a lot of incompatabilities, giving support will become nearly impossible and it will split the ooniverse into fractions. Surely it's players choice, but players won't see the interactions between OXPs in all details - this is OXPers job.

I don't think that the drones are in that category, nor do I think that they will cause trouble - so hey, right on Commander .-)