Oolite Bulletins

Commander McLane wrote:

its openness is the very core of many players' (including myself) fascination with this game.

Yep... that's what keeps people like us interested for a quarter of a century... and counting!

Switeck:

Just to say: I think that your general idea is a great one (although I confess not to having read all the posts in this thread carefully). I think that implementation of some such idea would aid 'immersion' (i.e. credibility and interest). I can say also that I think your 'mod' OXP does the same thing. Well perhaps it does. At any rate: I like it.

not that i give it much thought (i just accept it as-is, like Cmd McLane referred to), but i have two concepts vaguely when it comes to WS/Thargoids. Firstly i half-thought that the bugs are always there because WS (ie, the wierdie place you pass through before dropping out/getting kicked out) is all one area, some kinda warped region. this is probably inspired by some half-listened-to theory about wormholes being possible because all places are connected to all others, or mebbes i just made it up.
the other idea is, they're always there because they're bugs. they breed like insects, millions of eggs etc. if there's 6billion people on Earth, how many Thargoids must there be spreading through space in their ships and setting up new colonies etc? That's why the Navy has so much bother w/ them!

UK_Eliter,
Thanks for your support and praise of my mod.
Have you seen a "joyrider" yet along the space lanes?

Commander McLane wrote:

It then becomes a problem of script interaction. Can you create a script which keeps count of consecutive misjumps (that should be fairly easy) and then reduces the number of ships spawned by other scripts (that would be the tricky part).

Or rather, assuming misjumps can be counted, have other scripts add/not-add ships based on that.

Switeck wrote:

UK_Eliter,
Thanks for your support and praise of my mod.
Have you seen a "joyrider" yet along the space lanes?

Commander McLane wrote:

It then becomes a problem of script interaction. Can you create a script which keeps count of consecutive misjumps (that should be fairly easy) and then reduces the number of ships spawned by other scripts (that would be the tricky part).

Or rather, assuming misjumps can be counted, have other scripts add/not-add ships based on that.

Technically true, but I reckon this would be exponentially more difficult than removing the ships after they've been spawned, so I didn't mention it.

Considering who is working on Galactic Navy OXP and other similar OXPs that spawn extra Thargoids and other ships in interstellar space, I'm quite confident they can use a misjumps counting system for ship-spawning purposes were one to exist.

Ok, look. If people are getting their asses handed to them every time they purposefully mis-jump (your purposefully mis-jumping and then complaining about the consequences? I'd give Lawyers for yoou a call I think you may be entitled to compensation). Then I'm sure someone (if it can be done) can be bribed into writing a odds altering oxp.

Sorry I'm not seeing the WIN here. Best case scenario: Say you get everything you ask for: 1:1000 mis-jumps to thargy mis-jumps ratio (!) Your life from then on will go something like this: "Yay I've purposefully mis-jumed INTO......... absolutely nothing, again and for the last 37 times. Nothing. Ho hum well that was worth it."

Suddenly mis-jumping stops being the life or death struggle for glory and turns instantly into a mild annoyance, equal to accidentally trying to pull open a push door. Why bother up keeping your ship? You could be flying a freshly minted turd with a thrusterstuck on the back if the only penalty is mis-jumping into abject tedium.

"But it doesn't make any sense" I hear people cry..... Yeah well explain the scale and then we'll all have a long hard think about this particular inconsistency. Seriously though there is nothing wrong with this that a bit of Startrek bollocks science can't fix in under 15 seconds. Right. *Vulcan ears on* here we go.

"Whilst it is quite curious and illogical at first glance; how can one possibly explain how this insectoid race is able to be at exactly the right point in space to intercept almost every mis-jump? When we strip away the astronomically improbable and apply some theoretical astro-physics then the solution becomes quite clear. Firstly the astronomically improbable.

1) They inundate space; Given the ferocity of the war even the rudimentary calculations indicate that with that number of ships Galcop would have been snuffed out quicker that a candle in a hurricane.

2) They make mis-jumps happen; Would explain some of the sightings but not all. Mis-jumps can be forced and one would expect to see a reduced number of Thargoid sightings after such a jump.

3) They "hang around mid-jump" waiting for ships; Possible but given such an obviously exploitable Achilles heel (and the fact that appearances at quarter jumps have also been recorded) the hypothesis of "ship fishing" has to be given little credence or weight.

Now the possible;

4) Mis-jumps are sensed and reacted to very very quickly; Given that we KNOW that witch tunnels allow faster than light transit and this act fundamentally breaks the Einsteinian theory of relativity. We have to at least be open to the possibility that the Thargoids are exploiting another "loophole" in reality. But we are getting ahead of ourselves

4a) Detection: Given that a witch tunnel is NOT a 3 dimensional structure appearing to be a 2 dimensional plane in space that leads to an apparently 3D tube. One can postulate that the tube itself exists outside the existing 4 dimensions easily sensed by carbon based life forms. As we have yet to totally understand the nature of these extra dimensional states it would be unwise to put a limit on the speed at which information can travel through them. It is entirely possible that the Thargoids could have developed a system that detects disturbances (especially violent ones like mis-jumps) in this "other" dimensional state. More over as we have no sensual appreciation of this state, except when it pushes into our 4 dimensional space, detecting or even identifying such equipment would be next to impossible.

4b) Transit: Thargoids don't appear to use witch tunnels yet they appear to pervade space and travel exceptionally quickly. it is therefore logical to assume that there is another practical faster than light transport system out there of which we have LITTLE to NO knowledge. As we know little about the dimension in which OUR transport system inhabits, conjecture has filled the void usually filled by solid data.

Speaking for a moment on conjecture; statistically with such technological advantage the Thargoids should have won the war years ago. Going from planet to planet, sterilising them with an opposable force. So why haven't they? Could the 2 transit systems conflict in some way? Could their technology be limited some how? Currently we don't know and that unknown is the ONLY think keeping us in the war.

Conclusion: The only logical explanation that makes any mathematical sense, would seem to indicate that the Thargoid race has a much freer (but not limitless) access to the dimensional strata than other races currently enjoy. This gives them apparent advantages in detection and interception of trans-tunnel traffic to both cause and take advantage of accidental mis-jumps.

It may look like magic, but I'm sure a monkey thinks that every time he looks at a pane of glass. Our tools are flawed gentlemen, it would appear we have a lot of catching up to do and NO time to do it.

*takes off ears*

Knock a hole in that one. I dare you.

Right on, commander!

Dear (Commander) ClymAngus

Why not just have it such that something like the following is the case?

Only one in three misjumps (but perhaps we should increase the probability of an accidental misjump?) yields any Thargoids. (And perhaps: deliberate misjump attempts succede only one in, say, two times.)

If we (well, er, the Oolite-writers) did that, then the interstellar bug-clash would become slightly more of a novelty, and, thus - I submit - slightly more exciting.

As to the odds: I found that, at least with the omnipresent navy's help, I did not have that much problem splashing the bugs. But that was before I installed the Spectre, which generates a *huge* number of Thargoids.

Switeck: joy riders? Er, no. I don't know what you mean. Perhaps I haven't paid enough attention!

UK_Eliter wrote:

As to the odds: I found that, at least with the omnipresent navy's help, I did not have that much problem splashing the bugs.

Bear in mind that not everyone has Galactic Navy, or whichever, installed. When I occasionly find myself in interstellar space, taking-on five or six Thargoid warships single-handed, it is a sometimes 'interesting' challenge, that I enjoy greatly.

If you have Assassins.OXP Installed, this oxp adds alot of thargoids, and military ships to Interstellar space

Okti

Okti wrote:

If you have Assassins.OXP Installed, this oxp adds alot of thargoids, and military ships to Interstellar space

... in certain stages of the Assassins missions.

ClymAngus wrote:

Ok, look. If people are getting their asses handed to them every time they purposefully mis-jump (your purposefully mis-jumping and then complaining about the consequences? I'd give Lawyers for yoou a call I think you may be entitled to compensation). Then I'm sure someone (if it can be done) can be bribed into writing a odds altering oxp.

My whole point for a less...populous...interstellar "system" was for special missions to have NO Thargoids present but instead possibly something else.

It strains believability to have Thargoids "everywhere"...but oddly almost never in a system. You can even play a game of Zeno's Paradox ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes ) by doing misjump after misjump as you near a system...and always see more Thargoids no matter how many misjumps you make in a row and no matter how close to the system you get. While Thargoids may be effectively "everywhere" due to their misjump-inducing technology pulling you to them, this doesn't mean they are infinite in number. In theory, you could reach Elite status from Mostly Harmless just traveling between 2 systems *ONCE*. While in practice that's effectively impossible in one sitting, getting 500 kills isn't...thanks to inactive Thargons giving 1 kill each.

As-is, sure you can subtract away Thargoids using scripts...but it is messy and causes visual artifacts.

The fact there's a novel mention of interstellar space *NOT* having Thargoids is another good point. Not everywhere is supposed to have "something interesting" to see.

Switeck wrote:

It strains believability to have Thargoids "everywhere"...but oddly almost never in a system. You can even play a game of Zeno's Paradox ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes ) by doing misjump after misjump as you near a system...and always see more Thargoids no matter how many misjumps you make in a row and no matter how close to the system you get.

Inducing misjumps this way is essentially a cheat code. Including it in your model of what “makes sense” is a tad unfair. It’s also not possible in the core game, since you’d run out of fuel.

Switeck wrote:

...thanks to inactive Thargons giving 1 kill each.

This was actually removed once, but brought back by popular demand. Silly populars.

it's not silly at all. it's an enemy craft that was trying to kill you. you're entitled to a registered kill.