Oolite Bulletins

This is for those of you who have tried to hit the comms key and managed to eject from their ship instead. Yes, that includes me.

For me it wasn't so much the comms key, but (mainly) in the beginning of playing Oolite I associated the Esc key with calling the options /pause.

I am so used to that from the only other game(s) I am playing.

I have ejected accidentally more often than on purpose.

However, could this be made optional ?
Would that be a simple edit in the keyconfig ?

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El Viejo wrote:

That is probably the most important aspect of the game… the risk of getting killed. Without that, there’s no game, no immersion, as far as I’m concerned… risk-free Oolite… no thanks. One of Oolite’s/Elite’s best elements is that you are/were never invincible.

This is why I like the saving only at mainstations. So you almost always loose something by dying.

Eric Walch wrote:

Depending on your keyboard settings, it could be enough to just keep the key down.

Keeping the key pressed is what you do for the comms key, isn’t it? So if you hit the wrong key, you’re still going to eject by mistake.

Actually, I don't think you will be able to take advantage of keyboard settings to change the handling. The code specifically resets the status of the pod key to non-pressed immediately after the first press. I tested it by setting the interval from 0.2 to 2 seconds and it would not launch the capsule when I held the key down, although the keyboard was set to repeat much faster than 2 seconds.

In many flight sims/arcade-like fighter games I've played, eject was either shift+E or even CTRL+ALT+E. I don't like the double keypress and have hated double-clicking on the mouse since I first had to do it. Sometimes a 0.2 second delay is 0.199 seconds too long.

another_commander wrote:

Actually, I don't think you will be able to take advantage of keyboard settings to change the handling. The code specifically resets the status of the pod key to non-pressed immediately after the first press. I tested it by setting the interval from 0.2 to 2 seconds and it would not launch the capsule when I held the key down, although the keyboard was set to repeat much faster than 2 seconds.

You can, I tested it. With my usual settings I could keep it pressed. Only when I raised the interval or the time to the first repeat, I had to press twice.

Probably can Oolite on the Mac not distinguish between a keyboard generated second key and a player generated key. Both come from the same keyboard. It might be different for Windows though.

Double tap seems to be working ok for me, I do prefer it to what it was before.

I'm not too sure about either keeping the key pressed, I would be thinking "c'mon" for at least 0.199999999 seconds, or a 2 keys combination - too much to think about when I'm less than a second away from certain death...

Just wait until you can give it a whirl before dismissing the idea out of hand. It's just 7 hours before the automatic builds do their thing!

Kaks wrote:

Just wait until you can give it a whirl before dismissing the idea out of hand.

I’m not dismissing it out of hand… I’m not dismissing it at all, actually. I’ve just said it’ll take a bit of getting used to, which I will do tomorrow. However, the probably impossible idea of being able to arm/safe the eject function would be much nicer. If I’m in normal cruise mode, it’s safed… if I’m involved in a firefight, and the omens are not good, then I arm it, and I’m ready to eject with one key press. At that stage, I've no time for, or interest in, the comms.

well i think the "never die" point is a little valid, but at the same time, that's why you'd buy the thing in the first place. options to kinda counter balance this :
- make an EC very expensive - after all it should take a LOT of fitting to replace your entire cockpit structure.
- Make a failure factor inbuilt - say a 2% of failure?
- related, make the EC susceptible to damage as other equipment. Less possible given its armour, i guess, but still a chance.
- tweak the cash-in value of your policy - this like-for-like replacement doesn't really happen in the real world where insurance companies are tw@s, so how about you get a cash value instead? then you'd have to pick a ship on offer where you land and might have to spend some time getting back to the level you were at. Exactly how much of a market vaue % you get could be a random choice, perhaps based on tech level etc.
- tweak it so that each new capsule you buy costs more. The insurance companies won't like a person who dies every other trip so if they're gonna pay out, they're gonna charge you increasing premiums.

El Viejo wrote:

Eric Walch wrote:

Depending on your keyboard settings, it could be enough to just keep the key down.

Keeping the key pressed is what you do for the comms key, isn’t it? So if you hit the wrong key, you’re still going to eject by mistake.

Yes, when the keys were close together on a mac. But they aren't. On all Mac keyboards I have known, the '-key has been just above the alt-key, while the esc-key is at the top left. The only key near the esc is the F1 key. But that is not a key you press in a reflex. So for a mac-keylayout, the hitting esc by accident was not a real problem in my belief.

Killer Wolf wrote:

well i think the "never die" point is a little valid, but at the same time, that's why you'd buy the thing in the first place. options to kinda counter balance this :
- make an EC very expensive - after all it should take a LOT of fitting to replace your entire cockpit structure.
- Make a failure factor inbuilt - say a 2% of failure?
- related, make the EC susceptible to damage as other equipment. Less possible given its armour, i guess, but still a chance.
- tweak the cash-in value of your policy - this like-for-like replacement doesn't really happen in the real world where insurance companies are tw@s, so how about you get a cash value instead? then you'd have to pick a ship on offer where you land and might have to spend some time getting back to the level you were at. Exactly how much of a market vaue % you get could be a random choice, perhaps based on tech level etc.
- tweak it so that each new capsule you buy costs more. The insurance companies won't like a person who dies every other trip so if they're gonna pay out, they're gonna charge you increasing premiums.

I think this is the nub of it. The Escape Pod and its amazingly generous insurance terms are a bit of a kludge, game-wise. What would be good though would be to replace the EC with an armoured cockpit, so you survive your ship's destruction, and it takes you in to the main station. And that's it. You have to either buy a new ship then and there (from whatever is on offer in the shipyard where you've ended up), or pay for transport to another system where they might have something more than a beat-up Adder that smells funny.

Then, of course, the difficult part would be to accept the destruction of your top-of-the-line dream ship, and having to work your way back to riches again, instead of just reloading ... but it would make an "ironman" style game less of a total pain, would be much more immersive and would provide a useful sink for all the excess money. Sure, I'm rich: but having to buy and re-equip another Radio Maru, without the benefit of any trade-in, would put a serious dent in my savings!

This would be a big departure from the original game, though.

We haven't got too many options if we want to make escape capsules more 'realistic' and still retain the feel of the original game. However, we could have escape pods prices dependent on the basic ship cost.

Cobra3's escape pods will then still cost exactly the same as now, but will cost more for more expensive ships.

Likewise, a less expensive ship will require cheaper 'comprehensive insurance'.


Shall I?

Disembodied wrote:

This would be a big departure from the original game, though.

This is the rub really. A major break with canon.
As I confessed earlier I consistently fail to use the escape pod when I probably should, so one that automatically activates on the destruction of the ship would suit me.
And I like the idea that you just get taken to the nearest station but do not automatically get your ship replaced, perhaps, like 'real' insurance you should be paid 'book value', the value of your ship prior to destruction...much more realistic and believeable.
The problem here is that, say at a low-tech anarchy, there often are no ships available...how would we get round that one? Assuming your 'cash' is unaffected perhaps even the lowliest systems should have one or two modest ships for sale so there is something there you could buy, and then, yes you'd have to work your way up again. This might not be good for Jamesons though, so perhaps your insurance should either furnish you with a new Cobby 3, or pay book value against your old ship. And of course you'd still have your cash in the bank.
And what about 'dieing'? The bottom line is we don't, we just go back to our last save game. If we are going to have 'realism' perhaps when you die your save-game is wiped and you have to start from scratch, unless you've bought one of the new 'AutoEscapePods'. To be fair to newcomers, this could be standard equipment on your first Cobby, but you'd need to buy one (or face the consequences) whenever you replace your ship.

Disembodied wrote:

Killer Wolf wrote:

- tweak the cash-in value of your policy - this like-for-like replacement doesn't really happen in the real world where insurance companies are tw@s, so how about you get a cash value instead? then you'd have to pick a ship on offer where you land and might have to spend some time getting back to the level you were at. Exactly how much of a market vaue % you get could be a random choice, perhaps based on tech level etc.

I think this is the nub of it. The Escape Pod and its amazingly generous insurance terms are a bit of a kludge, game-wise. What would be good though would be to replace the EC with an armoured cockpit, so you survive your ship's destruction, and it takes you in to the main station. And that's it. You have to either buy a new ship then and there (from whatever is on offer in the shipyard where you've ended up), or pay for transport to another system where they might have something more than a beat-up Adder that smells funny.

Then, of course, the difficult part would be to accept the destruction of your top-of-the-line dream ship, and having to work your way back to riches again, instead of just reloading ... but it would make an "ironman" style game less of a total pain, would be much more immersive and would provide a useful sink for all the excess money. Sure, I'm rich: but having to buy and re-equip another Radio Maru, without the benefit of any trade-in, would put a serious dent in my savings!

This would be a big departure from the original game, though.

Another solution that would provide a challenge without actually changing the insurance terms: Upon your EC reaching the safety of a friendly station, you are given a clunky old ship and a message that your replacement ship can be picked up at another location. Location could be picked at random, or depend on the tech level of the ship you're replacing. Or my preferred way: A select # of worlds where insurance companies keep an inventory of replacement ships.
As this method gives you back your ship eventually, it is less likely to trigger the reload reflex, since the 'insurance penalty' incurred is one of time and convenience, not monetary.
Of course this runs in to the same problem as the parking-garage: How to get the game to give you a specific ship at a specific location. Can anybody say post-MNSR? I knew you could!

Smivs wrote:

If we are going to have 'realism' perhaps when you die your save-game is wiped and you have to start from scratch, unless you've bought one of the new 'AutoEscapePods'.

A few games do that, AV Nova was one IIRC. You had to keep alternating save games just in case. Not a majorly realistic thing, since you could always find a way around it, but a pain in the neck nonetheless!

Edit for CR: Post MNSR, post MNSR!

The less advantageous an escape pod gets, the more I player will ignore it and go for the reload option instead.

And I don't think that escape pods as they are now are really handwave-iable at all; or put the other way around : the game should maybe not be changed to make sense in this aspect.

I mean, you keep the passengers ? But you loose the cargo that goes by tons, still keep the vaults' content.
You have 1001 kg of gold : you keep 1 kg of gold
You have 999 kg of gold : you keep it all.

It doesn't make any sense, it's just a game mechanism. I can easily live with that.