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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:32 pm
by Darkbee
Just to add to this discussion... After not having played Oolite for some time and then returning to it, I too was disappointed to discover that Thargoids are not the bum-raping bandits* who made me s**t my pants that I seem to remember from incarnations of Elite.
However, when I started a new game scratch, with just the bare minimum of equipment I quickly got to relive the brown trousers moments of yester-year. So my conclusion is simply that they are hard-asses but then so is my ship on my long-term saved game, so it evens out. However, waving a pulse laser at a Thargoid, in an under-equipped Cobra MkIII is not going to instill fear into the hearts(?) of those alien scum! Plus, as somebody else mentioned, I was just a kid back then, I have many years of Elite/Oolite piloting experience behind me now!
One general observation though, they don't seem to release thargons quickly enough. Or maybe I simply destroy the mothership too quickly. I seemed to remember from the Speccy version that once a thargon was released then 4 were as a good as released since it happened in very quick succession.
*Please excuse my turn of phrase, I don't wish to offend anybody.
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:41 pm
by Ragged
The big thing that makes a difference with Thargoids, IMO, is having fuel injectors. These allow you to quickly remove yourself from harm's way, allow your lasers to cool a bit, get a good overview of the battlefield, maybe fire off some hardheads, and then re-engage when you are ready.
Try fighting the bugs without them, and you get much more a feel of being 'swarmed', as they slowly release the thargons, and the rate of 'crunch', 'crunch', 'crunch' on your shields increases...
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:29 pm
by Ramirez
Is the standard Thargoid AI more conservative than say a pirate AI (I could look this up but I'm away from my mac at the mo). I get the impression they fire their laser for a bit and spawn some thargons but they don't seem to bother chasing you that much.
Usually in Oolite having multiple hostiles, even with rather weak lasers, is much more of a problem than a single uber one. I fly quite a powerful ship but even so, if I misbehave near a station a group of vipers can quickly take my shields down if they manage to work together.
I suppose another factor is that all NPCs use the same performAttack routine, and so even if they're technically really strong (high energy, high recharge rate), unless they get a low energy warning they'll use the same attacking tactics as a standard trader instead of using their firepower to best effect. This often means a ship will cook its military lasers before getting a good shot on the player.
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:27 pm
by Switeck
I recall Thargoids firing in random directions at nothing. So they heat up their lasers over nothing. Their accuracy when they are firing in my general direction isn't great either.
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:49 pm
by Cody
I have this vague memory of reading somewhere that Thargoid lasers don’t overheat.
Did I imagine it, or is this correct? Also, how does a Thargoid laser compare with a military laser?
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:09 pm
by Zieman
El Viejo wrote: Also, how does a Thargoid laser compare with a military laser?
IIRC the Thargoid laser is weaker and has shorter range.
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:18 pm
by another_commander
Zieman wrote:El Viejo wrote: Also, how does a Thargoid laser compare with a military laser?
IIRC the Thargoid laser is weaker and has shorter range.
Zieman is right. Here are the stats for the two lasers, straight from the code:
Code: Select all
WEAPON_THARGOID_LASER: // omni directional lasers FRIGHTENING!
weapon_energy = 12.5;
weapon_recharge_rate = 0.5;
weaponRange = 17500;
WEAPON_MILITARY_LASER:
weapon_energy = 23.0;
weapon_recharge_rate = 0.20;
weaponRange = 30000;
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:34 pm
by Cody
Ah… thanks a_c and Zieman.
Roughly half the range and energy, but over double the recharge rate… interesting.
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:05 pm
by Switeck
So what would happen if Thargoids started using Military Lasers?
They wouldn't be omnidirectional, but that might matter little if they're gunning right at you.
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:26 pm
by Eric Walch
Darkbee wrote:One general observation though, they don't seem to release thargons quickly enough. Or maybe I simply destroy the mothership too quickly. I seemed to remember from the Speccy version that once a thargon was released then 4 were as a good as released since it happened in very quick succession.
That is a change in 1.74. But I don't know why it was added as it always was believed the the thargons released to late and not to fast. There are several older oxp's that just overwrite the new thargoid definition with the original one. e.g. FreakyThargoids or Smivs'Shipset_v2.0. When you install one of those two (or both), the thargons fire as you were used to.
In my opinion the thargoids are still frightening. One is no problem because a military laser can kill him with one salvo. But for the second you already have an overheated laser and the thargons that the killed one launched now focus on you.
You can run for them with injectors, but as fights often take place in witchspace, you constantly need to keep an eye on your fuel, to be able to jump out again.