Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:53 pm
And I thought I was being pessimistic... happy birthday!
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The Ahruman Birthday Wishes Thread (was: never mind...)
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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:17 pm
Many happy ones Ahruman!
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:52 pm
Happy Birthday Ahruman!
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:59 pm
It's kinda grim and yet kinda re-assuring, but in the real world, there is no way that China could completely embargo a vital element.
If a substitute could not be found, then it's China vs literally the rest of the world. If it's that vital, All sorts of methods from diplomatic, covert or outright military force in various combinations will be used to access those elements.
If it comes to that, it won't be pretty, but the embargo wouldn't stay up for long. If OPEC decided they were simply not going to sell any more oil, how long do you think that would last ?
If a substitute could not be found, then it's China vs literally the rest of the world. If it's that vital, All sorts of methods from diplomatic, covert or outright military force in various combinations will be used to access those elements.
If it comes to that, it won't be pretty, but the embargo wouldn't stay up for long. If OPEC decided they were simply not going to sell any more oil, how long do you think that would last ?
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:25 pm
Or manufacturing will happen in China, and we wont need to import the raw materials.
War isnt always thebest only option.
War isnt always the
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:29 pm
Happy birthday, Ahruman! 
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:32 pm
Mining the asteroid belt may not be as easy, given that the asteroid belt doesn't resemble what you may think, because ... well, you know.DaddyHoggy wrote:A serious moment/question (on this thread! <shock> <horror>)
Given China's continued clamping down on Rare Earth Element exports (to keep them for itself, because it can, because it wants to drive the price up, because it wants to wind the US up, etc. ???) - once the rest of us have dug up the rest of the world looking for alternative sources (Africa?) at what point does it become viable to start mining the asteroid fields instead?
I ask because many, many years ago I wrote a short story (the premise for a novel) where this is basically what happened - that the need and expense of elements on Earth made it worthwhile to mine the Asteroid belt - horribly expensive to start with (was my thoughts) as more and more nations clubbed together to do it it got cheaper, more technologically advanced, quicker and eventually lead to deep space observatories, labs and exploration because we had a base/production facility to do it from.
Thoughts/musings of your own?
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:58 pm
Just curious, as I am not really skilled in astronomy and all that stuff...you talk about mining asteroid belt, why not mine Moon first? Yep, I know that there are problems-gravity of moon demanding extra fuel to be carried, but it's a lot closer, more suitable for permanent base, and easier to prospect...
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:18 pm
The moon's gravity isn't that much a problem, it's pretty weak. The astronauts had no problem getting around up there, space suits and all.
It's the logistics of running a mining operation up there. We'd have to fly food, water, and air to the mining base on a regular basis, because the moon has none of that stuff. And lifting that cargo out of Earth's gravity is what drinks fuel.
It's the logistics of running a mining operation up there. We'd have to fly food, water, and air to the mining base on a regular basis, because the moon has none of that stuff. And lifting that cargo out of Earth's gravity is what drinks fuel.
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:30 pm
Here's a nice article with details on the possibilities for mining the Moon and asteroids:Sarin wrote:Just curious, as I am not really skilled in astronomy and all that stuff...you talk about mining asteroid belt, why not mine Moon first? Yep, I know that there are problems-gravity of moon demanding extra fuel to be carried, but it's a lot closer, more suitable for permanent base, and easier to prospect...
The Possibilities of Mining Asteroids and the Moon for Resources
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:33 pm
This doesn’t really address the question, which was “why asteroids instead of the moon?” And the answer is: asteroids are cooler. :-)Cmdr Wyvern wrote:The moon's gravity isn't that much a problem, it's pretty weak. The astronauts had no problem getting around up there, space suits and all.
It's the logistics of running a mining operation up there. We'd have to fly food, water, and air to the mining base on a regular basis, because the moon has none of that stuff. And lifting that cargo out of Earth's gravity is what drinks fuel.
There have been quite serious studies into lunar mining, most recently with an eye toward helium-3 in the event nuclear fusion ever becomes practical. That would make it the oil of the future. You wouldn’t need very large masses for fusion, but it’s very rare on Earth.
The biggest problem with lunar mining – or any other type of long-term settlement – is the short supply of hydrogen (for rocket fuel and water), but what with polar water and studies suggesting relatively abundant hydrogen in minerals some distance below the surface, this might be overcome.
Other than hydrogen, most of the stuff we need is there. With abundant electricity, you can make air, fertiliser and building materials out of rocks. Of course, to bootstrap that we need photovoltaics (and thus rare earth metals) from Earth…
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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:57 pm
Happy birthday, Ahruman! 
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:28 pm
Best wishes, from me, too! 
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:20 am
Happy Birthday Ahruman!
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:13 pm
Happy Birthday! And to strengthen my point: little video.