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Re: Flexible Maintenance Overhaul

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:44 pm
by Screet
JeffBTX wrote:
unfortunately I have Vista Home Premium 64 bit.
If you can also install a 32bit OS on that machine or have some old computer with 32bit XP/Vista or such, you could build there...

About running Oolite: If you use Vista, be sure NOT to install to a folder like Program Files with UAC on - the newer oolite installers per default won't attempt to install to that path anyway. The problem is that the safety mechanisms of Vista will create COPIES of your files in a hidden folder when you edit them. If you later update the oxp you will then have the wrong versions also active. Furthermore your modifications would not show up for other users. I've even seen hardware drivers having trouble with that feature of Vista.

Screet

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:48 pm
by JeffBTX
Screet; Thanks... yes I know about the \Program Files problem. I've had to "jump through hoops" for a couple of other applications (hopefully fixed for the next versions).

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:11 am
by DaddyHoggy
You could install Ubuntu (or similiar) - I think there's even a way of making Ubuntu run just like a Windows app inside windows...

EDIT: http://lifehacker.com/5195999/portable- ... de-windows

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:44 am
by Kaks
Yet another alternative if you don't mind slowing down your compile time ( it's still slower than a rebooted 32 bit system running nativerly, but seems faster than using portable ubuntu): you could always use a virtual machine!

I've used VirtualBox with one of my XP sp3 install disks (I swear those things have been multiplying in the drawer), and it did the job! :)

Re: Flexible Maintenance Overhaul

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:12 pm
by Commander McLane
JeffBTX wrote:
Concerning OXPs:
I can code; BUILT my first computer in the late 70s, when assembly language was a MUST, then basic, some pascal, and I've been writing in C / C++ since the mid 90s. But I have no experience with coding for Oolite... and I don't have a Windows-Native compiler installed (just an old compiler on my other DOS machine), or any modelling tools (an earlier version of Wings3D about drove me crazy once, I was going to use it for exporting to a Ray Tracer. Maybe its "nicer" now). I've been hesitant to install Visual C express (on my new, present computer) because of *possible* Vista issues (hehehe BOTH Microsoft products... go figure).
Hi!

Please note that "coding" and "OXPs" don't have necessarily something to do with each other. Specifically: If you want to write OXPs, you don't need to care the least little bit about in which C dialect Oolite was written. All you have to do is to use its scripting interface. And all you need to know for this is JavaScript and Oolite's legacy scripting system, which is still used in some of the scripting stuff, and can be written either in OpenStep or XML (personally I think both have their merits; for instance I strongly prefer XML for shipdata.plist, while I find it horrible for anything scripting-related).

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:40 pm
by JeffBTX
Commander McLane;

Oh, yea, I know...

The reason that I brought up coding in the first place is because of my occasionally convoluted mind; you see, as we age, our brains curdle like old eggs in a frying pan. If we are UNLucky, when we turn into old eggs, we drool and don't say much. If we are relatively lucky, we babble.

I was babbling.
:P

I brought up the maintenance issue > mentioned how maybe it could be in an OXP > (someone might say "well, write an OXP for it) > so I mentioned that I COULD code, and have some experience, just not with Oolite or with what Oolite uses.

Unless I get kicked off the board for vicious babblitiousness, you'll find that sometimes (most of the time) I tend to "put too much detail" into my posts. More than most people would, when explaining an idea.

I am getting an idea (the more that I play Oolite, and the more that I look stuff up) as to how OXPs are put together. Maybe some day. Right now, I only have ONE idea for an OXP, and I assume that it either wouldn't be well recieved, or met with " (shrug) So What? ";

The one idea that I have might be called "YourBaseHere". Sort of like Elite / FFE / Oolite combined with player-owned property. Sort of like the X-series of games (X=Beyond the Frontier, X-Tension) only not so complicated.

It could be as simple as a distinctive looking "Hanger in Space". To dress it up some, maybe it could be scripted to have a neon sign on it with the commander's name and stats (rating, kills, credits)... the scripts would have to reference images of all 26 letters of the alphabet (to put the commander's name on the sign) and the 10 digits... ratings of course are whole words... maybe with graphics next to the rating ... HARMLESS could be a kitty cat... MOSTLY HARMLESS a full grown cat... COMPETENT maybe a cheetah or a leopard... ELITE maybe a lion or a tiger. Or the user could hack the OXP to use reptiles, or the faces of politicians... maybe there could be a space on the sign (initially just blank background) that the player could use to add his own face.

EDIT: Actually the OXP might come with a default "Commander Jameson" JPG of a specific size, and the ReadMe explains how to replace it with a JPG of one's own callsign, and maybe we could forgo the numbers. So the sign might show "Commander Khan" "Dangerous" (a picture of a jaguar, or a monitor lizard/kimodo dragon) and a rendition of Ghengis Khan in full barbarian regalia.

The whole idea is that your "Palace" is also advertisement. We are mercenaries, yes? So one would not just live there, it's also your "office", with what amounts to be a big "business card" on top of it.

Maybe the base could have special features. Do overhauls whenever. Full repair facilities. Storage for commodites? Of course some of the usual things; navmaps.

To get extreme, this would be an extremely expensive thing whereby the player goes into business for himself. It could make money... NPC ships dock and do trading. Maybe YourBaseHere has manufacturing ability... can make expendible like missiles (free for the owner, of course).

Of course it would have to be EXTREMELY expensive and/or the player would have to do some enormous monumental task to get it.

Would I code this? HECK NO! Hehehe. Too lazy I think for an undertaking of that magnitude. Also too.. "un-canonical". Too much of a departure from the original game. But someone MIGHT like the idea, someone MIGHT code something like this some day.

For now, I DO want to learn a little about XML in order to hack and modify other OXPs for my own use. I realize that such things should not (and would not) get distributed. Its possible that this is frowned upon on the board, and I don't know, I'm still new here, but "Tell me how to hack this OXP and change it" is probably considered bad manners. I will read references on the web on XML and so forth as time permits.

EDIT: Not just to MODIFY OXPs, but to occasionally FIX them as well.

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:46 pm
by Cmdr James
I think Lestradae has some similar ideas in his work. You can ceratinly buy stations, and I think use them as a hanger for ships.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:11 am
by JeffBTX
I'll keep an an eye out for Lestradae's idea... sounds interesting.

In the meantime... for the original post... IF implemented... for consistancy and completeness:

Always have Maintenance Overall in the shipyard, but three (or 4... I put the 4th one in for amusement and I don't know if it's possible) colors:

Yellow = relatively good shape... I've been examining my savegames out of curiosity, and I notice from an immediate save after an overhaul it doesn't reach 100 (maybe it does on rare occasions) but it is in the 90s.

Orange = degradation down to 85 (Or some other number, if the concept is thought out more. Maybe 66, if you read the following...)

Red = better do something about that ship! perhaps 33 (or whatever).

Grey = Your ship, it be DEAD mate! What'd ye do, STARVE the poor thing? It smells like OLD BARNICLES! ARrrrr!

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:17 am
by another_commander
JeffBTX wrote:
Always have Maintenance Overall in the shipyard, but three (or 4... I put the 4th one in for amusement and I don't know if it's possible) colors:

Yellow = relatively good shape... I've been examining my savegames out of curiosity, and I notice from an immediate save after an overhaul it doesn't reach 100 (maybe it does on rare occasions) but it is in the 90s.

Orange = degradation down to 85 (Or some other number, if the concept is thought out more. Maybe 66, if you read the following...)

Red = better do something about that ship! perhaps 33 (or whatever).

Grey = Your ship, it be DEAD mate! What'd ye do, STARVE the poor thing? It smells like OLD BARNICLES! ARrrrr!
The trade in factor is clamped to 75%. By the time it reaches that level, you may already be experiencing the results of poor maintenance. Not doing overhauls has consequences in-game, in addition to just dropping the trade-in factor. Also, it is by design that after maintenance the trade in factor does not reset to full 100%. Making a change as proposed above is, in my opinion, something that alters drastically gameplay and will require quite a bit of additional work to emulate the wear effects on the ship due to lack of maintenance, so I think that realistically it can be considered only post-MNSR. In my opinion, however, it is one of those "too-arcadey" changes that don't fall in my area of preference. The initial proposal could be considered, though.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:31 am
by Cmdr James
I dont have access to the source right now. Is there a lower clamp at say 25% of value? There probably should be, even as scrap there would be some value.

I think increasing probablity of equipment failure is good enough, and having colour bands for the overhaul would be ok, if someone wanted to implement it. I would not want to go as far as having the ship dead.

Re: Flexible Maintenance Overhaul

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:53 am
by Diziet Sma
DaddyHoggy wrote:
Svengali wrote:
JeffBTX wrote:
Watza NOP?
6502/6510 $EA No OPeration (2 Cycles) - my favorite Mnemonic at that time to balance timecritical things...
Now that takes me back! :)
Likewise.. way back when I taught myself 6502 assembler on a Vic20.. after having typed in the mixed basic/MC assembler program itself, from a book I bought..

NOP could also stand for Nerdy Old Programmer.. (hey, who else used/uses assembler?)


As to the original topic, I vote yes, for all the reasons others have expressed.

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:01 pm
by JeffBTX
Off topic again. Sorry. But occasionally this is turning into a "... that takes me back to old computers... " thread.

This was my first computer; it is the one that I first learned assembler on. Notice how this computer was ONLY sold in kit form, and that you had to solder the motherboard? (AND everything else. It was a solderfest!) What Fun!
:P
Mass Storage: 300 baud cassette tape, "Kansas City Standard".
CPU clocked at: Not_Quite_A_MegaHertz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-50_Bus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWTPC
(SWPTC 6800 links)

http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/swtpc_6800.htm
(various pictures of subsystems, components, add-ons... 8K (yes 8 kilobytes) of memory in those days was ~ $700 - $800 U.S.)

... it connected to a "dumb terminal" through an RS-232 interface. I bought a Lear Siegler ADM-3A kit and had to solder it together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A

http://www.vintagecomputer.net/LSI/ADM3 ... loseup.jpg

http://bytecollector.com/lsi.htm

Now... imagine Oolite... coded for an 80x24 "Ascii Graphics" screen.
:twisted:

Re: Flexible Maintenance Overhaul

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:36 pm
by Matti
I have some interest for maintenance and stuff. What's status of it right now?

I recommend following: in addition of regular maintenance, ship parts would wear off to point where those can't work anymore. In that eventual case whole part would need be changed, so old engine out and new engine in. I wouldn't mind paying for such... maybe up to half of the income I get from cargo runs.

Re:

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:33 pm
by SandJ
JeffBTX wrote:
Now... imagine Oolite... coded for an 80x24 "Ascii Graphics" screen.
:twisted:
Don't knock it. Many years ago, I wrote a poor Elite clone in CIS-COBOL that ran under DRX on the ICL DRS20.

Mind you, it was crap.

I did the combat as a vertical scroller, where enemy ships were such things as V, W, M and laser fire was streaks of ¦ characters. You went left or right or fired the laser as the other ships came down the screen at you. The number, hostility and type of enemy ships was determined by the planet's tech level and government.

Trading worked OK though and you could buy upgrades.

Because the DRS20 was a networked system, I wanted to do a multi-user version but my colleagues thought that was a crap idea with such comments as "Why would you want a multi-user computer game, stupid? If you've got a computer then who needs other players? And if you've got other players, why do you need a computer. God, you're thick sometimes." So I never bothered.

Yeah, multi-user computer games. Like they'll ever catch on. :roll:

Re: Re:

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:52 pm
by Matti
SandJ wrote:
If you've got a computer then who needs other players? And if you've got other players, why do you need a computer.
Answer: "Becouse computer can calculate and record statistics so player's can focus on gaming itself." Major reason why Walter Bright made Empire wargame. And with modems players can play from anywhere they can connect their terminals or home computers.

[edit]
Sure Empire could be played analogically, no problem. But what would it take to play it so that opposing player(s) don't see your moves outside sight range of their units? Hard for me to believe such things were not understood way back when...