Oolite Bulletins

Davidtq wrote:

Ahruman wrote:

Davidtq wrote:

I dont know if the graveyard respawns itself or not, but I forced an instant respawn by simply moved the oxp file done a shift restart saved the commander then moved the oxp back into add-ons then the graveyard respawned as if it was a new oxp being used for the first time.

Jumping out of the system and back again should work too.

Diziet Sma wrote:

I don't recall now just what editing I'd done to a save-file to get this.. money or ship type, I suspect.. My guess is that any editing of the save file means that the checksum saved in the file will be incorrect. Is this what's happening?

Don’t tell anyone, but that checksum is a red herring. It’s carefully calculated from various saved game settings, but never actually checked.

So I did rather more work than was necesary for the experiment ah well.

Clearly I have much to learn (eventually) about the ways oolite works

Perhaps a failing of mine that I ran with a solution that appeared to work instead of looking for a simpler still solution. It never occured to me to jump in and out of the system. I guess thinking about it, it makes sense .

You could have also created sixteen variants of the graveyard with different spawn points but in near identical and/or overlapping locations - q-mine and then wait several minutes while your machine chugs along vaporising thousands of ships....

another_commander wrote:

@Diziet Sma: Black magic!
No, actually, it checks using another number which is also in the savefile. I'm not gonna say which one, though.

Ahhh... that would be this one then, I'm thinking..

<key>trumbles</key>
<array>
<integer>0</integer>
<integer>35912</integer>

Not that it matters much, without knowing the algorithm that generates it...

DaddyHoggy wrote:

Davidtq wrote:

Ahruman wrote:

Jumping out of the system and back again should work too.
Don’t tell anyone, but that checksum is a red herring. It’s carefully calculated from various saved game settings, but never actually checked.

So I did rather more work than was necesary for the experiment ah well.

Clearly I have much to learn (eventually) about the ways oolite works

Perhaps a failing of mine that I ran with a solution that appeared to work instead of looking for a simpler still solution. It never occured to me to jump in and out of the system. I guess thinking about it, it makes sense .

You could have also created sixteen variants of the graveyard with different spawn points but in near identical and/or overlapping locations - q-mine and then wait several minutes while your machine chugs along vaporising thousands of ships....

I may just do that and see just how much it does make the machine chug... It doesnt sound like too much work to setup... See what part of the system it is that slows down the cpu or gpu figuring stuff like that out tends to appeal to me

Ive got two more films to watch tonight so thats an ideal time to try it out.

Of course many here could tell me exactly what will happen already But I do like to discover things myself

Diziet Sma wrote:

another_commander wrote:

@Diziet Sma: Black magic!
No, actually, it checks using another number which is also in the savefile. I'm not gonna say which one, though.

Ahhh... that would be this one then, I'm thinking..

<key>trumbles</key>
<array>
<integer>0</integer>
<integer>35912</integer>

Not that it matters much, without knowing the algorithm that generates it...

Im sure its got to be in the main code somewhere and I believe we can download and easily read the code, but sounds like more effort than its worth given the console option

Davidtq wrote:

Diziet Sma wrote:

another_commander wrote:

@Diziet Sma: Black magic!
No, actually, it checks using another number which is also in the savefile. I'm not gonna say which one, though.

Ahhh... that would be this one then, I'm thinking..

<key>trumbles</key>
<array>
<integer>0</integer>
<integer>35912</integer>

Not that it matters much, without knowing the algorithm that generates it...

Im sure its got to be in the main code somewhere and I believe we can download and easily read the code, but sounds like more effort than its worth given the console option

Yep.. too much work, until such time as the devs start making the game do evil things when it detects cheating.. (oops.. I just blew it, didn't I?)

Diziet Sma wrote:

Davidtq wrote:

Diziet Sma wrote:

Ahhh... that would be this one then, I'm thinking.. Not that it matters much, without knowing the algorithm that generates it...

Im sure its got to be in the main code somewhere and I believe we can download and easily read the code, but sounds like more effort than its worth given the console option

Yep.. too much work, until such time as the devs start making the game do evil things when it detects cheating.. (oops.. I just blew it, didn't I?)

I'm not really sure the game needs anti cheat measures. Part of the fun of the game is its open nature. I think tightening down the screws could only really make it less "free" and limit what can be done.

I "enjoyed" figuring out a method to get to elite fast - I had no intention of continuing from that point as my main pilot I just wanted to play "how do i" and "What if" Having became "elite" using a cheat has in no way diminished my efforts to get there the "proper" way it was just a light experiment I like a game that encourages experimentation, lateral thinking and unconventional game play.

Of course Im sure the devs themselves have better things to do with their time than clamp down on cheating as well after all a true cheat is only cheating themselves out of the journey. But if thats how they enjoy it - let them have their type of fun - it doesnt affect anyone else

I don't think there will be anything done with the savefile cheating business. Never been a subject of discussion anywhere. I think the basic idea behind all these checks in the code is to let the user know "Hey, you think that you can cheat, but I know what you did there..." so other than the Bad Boy thingy not much else is to be done here. There are definitely more important things to worry about in the codebase.

another_commander wrote:

I don't think there will be anything done with the savefile cheating business. Never been a subject of discussion anywhere. I think the basic idea behind all these checks in the code is to let the user know "Hey, you think that you can cheat, but I know what you did there..." so other than the Bad Boy thingy not much else is to be done here. There are definitely more important things to worry about in the codebase.

Which of course also adds to the fun of trying to circumvent what there is there, sure it doesnt "hurt" that youve been found out, but can I do "this" to get round "that".

If I had more time Id also find it "fun" in some very odd way to chase down the checking routine and figure out how to edit the save file direct and manually recalculate the true checksum, Im an odd person Probably along the way disabling the check for a period just for the heck of it...

Yep Im a very odd person.

Cheating! Why? Except for testing, what's the point.

In the original Elite, there was a cheat that gave you 300 missiles. You basically became invincible. Pointless! That's one of the problems with modern games - at a certain level you become invincible. In Elite, you never were invincible; there was always someone who could take you out, no matter how good you were!

That's how I like it. I hope Oolite keeps to this idea; if not I'll have to revert to Strict Play.

BTW, does anybody play the Strict Game?

El Viejo wrote:

Cheating! Why? Except for testing, what's the point.

In the original Elite, there was a cheat that gave you 300 missiles. You basically became invincible. Pointless! That's one of the problems with modern games - at a certain level you become invincible. In Elite, you never were invincible; there was always someone who could take you out, no matter how good you were!

That's how I like it. I hope Oolite keeps to this idea; if not I'll have to revert to Strict Play.

BTW, does anybody play the Strict Game?

It depends entirely on the situation, I like to explore and see what can be done what is possible etc etc, there finding a way to cheat itself is the challenge. Finding an unexpected reaction to something can similiarly be a challenge. Its no different to any other sort of puzzle. Trying to figure out how something works.

I dont use cheats to "complete" games because game completion isnt really what I aim for. I like to "know" a game and "know how it works" etc etc. Sure I took a short cut to elite for the sake of seeing what happened, but I maintain a "non-cheated" pilot which is where my core game play happens. (Currently imaginitively named Command Cobra...)

I dont really see that much point to strict play, I like the extensions from the original game, I like the fact that its expandable and has new features.

Now then about this 300 missile cheat, Ive not heard of it before what version was that in?

I have to say I never used missiles so even an infinite supply wouldnt be invincibility, I would say in the spectrum version and in the PC Elite plus you could easily become invincible, just by getting good, after enough practise on either of them you had to mess up to die.

PS Im not encouraging putting in cheats, or any changes to the game, the whole point of this thread was adding a nice "display" a "well done" when you finally reach Elite.

It was in my Elite for BBC - no idea what version. The one with just outlines. It's a long time ago. I can't even remember how it was done, except it was some sort of keyboard switch.

However, I like the idea of some display for reaching Elite.

El Viejo wrote:

It was in my Elite for BBC - no idea what version. The one with just outlines. It's a long time ago. I can't even remember how it was done, except it was some sort of keyboard switch.

However, I like the idea of some display for reaching Elite.

OOh the original original Ive only ever played that emulated. For me the Spectrum version is my "original" elite as it was the from the first generation. Although I think there were two different BBC versions as well... not sure.

I cant take credit for the idea of a display for reaching elite. It was one of the defining moments of my elite playing career when I first saw the totally unexpected display in elite plus for gaining the elite rating

That was completely cheat free as well .

I think you're right about the original - there were two versions.

As for Elite Plus, do you recall a code number displayed on your Elite shield as you were awarded it? It was supposed to have some significance, but I can't recall what.

My programerly intuition suggests it was actually 255 missiles. :-)

Ahruman
I'd like to ask you to explain that, but I doubt I'd understand. As I say, it was a long time ago!