Page 2 of 3

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:13 am
by Davidtq
DaddyHoggy wrote:
The first ever Oolite sighting of a RL(tm) "better half" :lol:

I used to share an office with a guy who used to race a class N (that's normal road cars right?) Pug 205 GTi in the RAC rally back in the early 1990s - all the lads from the local Pug garage were his support team - they used to empty the garage of spares and he bought what he broke at trade price at the end of the rally and they got their names on the car and that of the garage - best position I think he managed was 86th (overall - all classes).
Yeah Group N is "showroom" spec its not actually a car straight off the fore court though, its more limitations on just how far you can go on the modifications :D you can easily spend 1.5 times the cars new price of taking a car from the forecourt to group N Rally ready :D with the subarus and the like its even more expensive again to get them Group N competetive :D.

The peugeot 205s were very competetive cars back in the day, I never got along with them though, all the little pugs have a nasty habit of rolling, marvelous traction up to a very sudde point at which time they flip over... Overall results arent really of interest to most competitors int he lower classes, you only pay attention to class results. the 6R4's and WRC's really arent on your radar.

Group A (Serious money pit) 205's were one of my benchmarks, Surprisingly fast cars they were, On dry tarmac I could outpace 2litre Group B (throw out the regulations and do what you like) mk 2 escorts and quite regularly Group B Escort Cosworths (not to be confused in anyway with the tame road going version). The Top end group A Pugs were faster than me! They were still in with a chance at the top 20 overall...

The RAC is a big money event even for privateers, one of the guys know is still wracking up Class wins for Skoda, I think he said it cost him around £5000 before he even left the start line. He was I believe officially the lowest budget entry...

My main stamping ground was the British Trial and rally drivers association Forest championship. It was a step down the ladder from the championships of which the RAC was a round. That said it was also far more competetive in my class, N1 could field up to 30 cars in our championship the BRC could only muster decent N1 (showroom spec up to 1400cc) fields when the Skoda Trophy was part of it, but once that stopped they were lucky to get 3 entry's in the class! I managed to get up to joint 1st in class, just past half way through the season, but then went down to 3rd in class by the end of the year after missing 3 events due to an engine bay fire :cry: For spending The best part of £10,000 (not including buying the car) I got a nice glass cup with some writing scratched in the side...I cant remember now I think had I maintained first place in class I might have got the staggering prize money of £250.. About half an entry fee back, so much for Gran Turismo's prize money paying your way and paying for new cars way of racing.

Talent alone will get you no where in rallying, if you dont have the money to get into the right cars and right championships (Normally "one make" championships where you have to buy a brand new road car and convert it exactly to spec using all new parts) to get yourself noticed.

There are cheap forms of rallying "road rallies" "12 car navigational rallies" and "enduro" rallying all of which are within the grasp of anyone with a car, but they arent in anyway career starters, and once youve done national level stage rallying, you dont really want to go back. Theres something very special about hurtling through a forrest with spectators all round.

Some Pics of the Skoda in Action:-

Image

Image

Image


If you look closely you will notice that first two pics there is no way the car could be at the angle it is to the road if it was "just driving" the little skodas are fantastic for driving sideways, One I learnt left foot braking I never looked at rear wheel drive again :D.

Most people when talking about handling think of it as being how the car behaves up until it runs out of traction, for me That part was just an introduction the test of handling for me was how it bridged the part between traction and sliding and more importantly how it handled when sliding, lower and stiffer is NOT always the path to true better handling... Theres far more to car handling at competetive pace.

Really Its dangerous to talk cars...

Cmdr Wyvern wrote:
The X52 is a little power hungry, and can be a bit unstable if the computer's USB port doesn't supply enough current. A cheap powered USB hub takes care of that.

As for the twist axis, I never liked the twist on other joysticks that had that feature, as it was too easy to twist when trying not to. That's not a problem with the X52. The spring tension on it's twist axis is strong enough that there's practically no way to accidentally twist it: You gotta put a bit of muscle behind the twist action.

It comes with a set of strong suction cups, and screw holes in the bases for getting a good solid mounting solution.

You want buttons? The X52 has buttons out the wazoo. Three hat switches, three two-way toggles, two triggers, one of which is two-stage, nine pushbuttons, and a mode switch. All programmable.
I think I need a hub anyway the two front ports on my case have been broken by the kids...

Screw holes sound like a good idea.

Can the Buttons be programmed to act as key strokes? :lol:

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:49 am
by Cmdr Wyvern
Yes.
Saitek's programming software allows the triggers, buttons, hats, and toggles to be programmed with keystrokes, even complex macros are possible. The axis can be banded and programmed as well.

If you pick up an X52, don't bother with the drivers and software on the CD that comes with it, said software is outdated and buggy. Go to Saitek's website and download the latest versions instead.

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:56 am
by Davidtq
Cmdr Wyvern wrote:
Yes.
Saitek's programming software allows the triggers, buttons, hats, and toggles to be programmed with keystrokes, even complex macros are possible. The axis can be banded and programmed as well.

If you pick up an X52, don't bother with the drivers and software on the CD that comes with it, said software is outdated and buggy. Go to Saitek's website and download the latest versions instead.
That sounds really usefull being able to assign f1-f4 to a POV hat and I might actually use the rear laser from time to time...

I hate going back to the keyboard during a space game

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:18 am
by DaddyHoggy
Hooray - back on topic! (Although I enjoyed the rally stuff very much :wink: )

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:32 am
by Davidtq
Im looking the x52's up now, theres some second hand units on ebay but they are coming up for nearly £60 including postage, new units can be had from around £80, so Im not sure its worth £20 saving for a "used" unit, but then its just £20 more to get the "Pro" version which apparantly uses twice as many sensors and some parts are metal where they are plastic on the regular version... This month the finances are recovering from a holiday in Cornwall over the easter break,

Am I really considering spending £100 on a joystick :shock:

My wife also wants a new phone to "go with" the new cockpit.

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:56 pm
by _ds_
Cmdr Wyvern wrote:
You want buttons? The X52 has buttons out the wazoo. Three hat switches, three two-way toggles, two triggers, one of which is two-stage, nine pushbuttons, and a mode switch.
I'm suddenly glad that I allowed for four hats when ‘fixing up’ the SDL joystick code :)
All programmable.
Would depend on the driver(s) and what else is implemented. Should be possible to do similar on Linux with help from some user-space stuff; but I don't see a real need. I'd rather tweak the joystick code a bit more, really.

(Using a Logitech Extreme 3D; no problems noticed so far – well, nothing which I consider unfixable… hmm, shouldn't this thread be somewhere less OS-specific?)

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:58 pm
by Macleesh
For Oolite I've been using an Xbox 360 controller.
Oolite is more at the arcade end of control requirements and I find it just about ideal, normally left in precision mode.

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:05 pm
by Cmd. Cheyd
I can't seem to get Precision mode to work... Every time I enable it, I get a strong left yaw effect, but no adjustment to the precision. At least none I can tell because of the yaw.

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:13 pm
by Screet
Cmd. Cheyd wrote:
I can't seem to get Precision mode to work... Every time I enable it, I get a strong left yaw effect, but no adjustment to the precision. At least none I can tell because of the yaw.
AFAIK there was a bug that's fixed in trunk code now.

Screet

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:12 pm
by Davidtq
_ds_ wrote:
Cmdr Wyvern wrote:
You want buttons? The X52 has buttons out the wazoo. Three hat switches, three two-way toggles, two triggers, one of which is two-stage, nine pushbuttons, and a mode switch.
I'm suddenly glad that I allowed for four hats when ‘fixing up’ the SDL joystick code :)
All programmable.
Would depend on the driver(s) and what else is implemented. Should be possible to do similar on Linux with help from some user-space stuff; but I don't see a real need. I'd rather tweak the joystick code a bit more, really.

(Using a Logitech Extreme 3D; no problems noticed so far – well, nothing which I consider unfixable… hmm, shouldn't this thread be somewhere less OS-specific?)
Im on 1.72.2 under vista (installed in a non default location to get past UAC when messing with OXP's) at the moment oolite doesnt seem to recognise the hat on my current stick although the driver shows it working just fine in control panel.

Ideally I will set things up so I dont have to use the keyboard for any function, even when docked. Long term I might end up with MFD's to help get over the keyboard issues.

I wonder if its possible to redirect oolite dash information to a second screen...

I will also be using the same setup for any one of many other space games as and when I feel like it (I go through phases).

On a side note Ive just realised that joystick tray extension on my keyboard tray makes a great plate holder, solving the problem of eating at the keyboard without getting crumbs in it :D. You know what they say about simple things and simple minds :lol:

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:21 pm
by Screet
Davidtq wrote:
Im on 1.72.2 under vista (installed in a non default location to get past UAC when messing with OXP's) at the moment oolite doesnt seem to recognise the hat on my current stick although the driver shows it working just fine in control panel.
That bug has been fixed a few days ago and is available via the trunk version!

Screet

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:05 am
by Davidtq
Screet wrote:
Davidtq wrote:
Im on 1.72.2 under vista (installed in a non default location to get past UAC when messing with OXP's) at the moment oolite doesnt seem to recognise the hat on my current stick although the driver shows it working just fine in control panel.
That bug has been fixed a few days ago and is available via the trunk version!

Screet
I tried following the instructions on compiling oolite but I didnt even get the programs required running right under vista 64 will have to give it another go sometime, its on the to-do list along with get down to understanding the code. Probably about the same time as putting together the alternative textures and finishing off my "kintari" oxp. Unfortunately its a very long to-do list, however its further up the list than finishing the grouting in the bathroom :lol:

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:21 pm
by _ds_
Screet wrote:
Davidtq wrote:
Im on 1.72.2 under vista (installed in a non default location to get past UAC when messing with OXP's) at the moment oolite doesnt seem to recognise the hat on my current stick although the driver shows it working just fine in control panel.
That bug has been fixed a few days ago and is available via the trunk version!
And, as of… well, just a few minutes ago, the “dead zone” is no longer tripled in size (along each axis) with ‘sensitive’ mode enabled.

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 5:32 pm
by Davidtq
Right well I think its going to be the saitek x52 pro, eventually. For now the Trusty trust will live on if necesary I can transfer throttle controls to the pedals from my steering wheel setup.

The cockpit seen earlier in this is going to be dismantled and replaced with something far cooler and a good bit more substantial:lol:. Its going to take a good few months, but Im sure I will be back here to put up a pic when its done :D

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:20 am
by Davidtq
The trust joystick is really dieing now the throttle in gmes jumps all over the shop, theres click and sticking on steering, and button 2 is jamming on regularly...

Saitek X52 pro is on order, picked up a powered hub, and a saitek aviator for the wife at the same time.