Obviously you have because you have just set up a trial in the forum accusing McLane for sabotaging your oxp.
You know not the whole universe (in our case oouniverse ) revolves around your oxp
... you have just set up a trial in the forum accusing McLane for sabotaging your oxp.
Would you seriously suggest (after he explicitly said he wouldn't remove the problem, "just don't download it" were the words) that there is an alternative explanation for his behaviour?
Ark wrote:
You know not the whole universe (in our case oouniverse ) revolves around your oxp
It seems to for McLane
Seriously, if you or someone else finds a way to mediate or find a peaceful solution to this, I'm all ears and very probably will do my part in making that possible.
But before that happens, two things have to be clarified for me:
1. No one is going to tell me (or anyone else, btw) what I may use in my oxp and what not.
2. That a real consensus exists in this community about that no intentional sabotage (not alter, change in some way, or modify, but sabotage!) of another's oxp will be tolerated.
One OXP to rule them all and in the darkness bind them...
Looks like the RS concept has taken the dark road towards Barad-dur. To extend the original metaphor, RS is now (IMO) running the risk of corrupting the other OXPs into wraithlike corruptions of their former selves.
Don't get me wrong, I like the RS concept but (as mentioned before) I felt that the Realistic Shipyards OXP should have been a stand-alone WRAPPER for the other OXPs instead of including copies of those OXPs inside itself. Firstly it would have reduced the size and secondly it would have avoided this problem.
Using my own feelings as a guide, I suspect that the OXP developers on this forum put a lot of time and effort into thier work and are justifiably proud of them when they are finished. Some often go that little bit further and provide a bit of backstory and colour to the content and make it a little more "alive". When one does this it makes a developer feel lilke they have created a little bit of reality in a fictional universe.
Consider how it must feel to then have someone come along and basically say "well this is wrong, that is wrong, this is wrong, no no no this bit's all wrong too so what I'll do is I'll take your lovingly crafted ship and all its stats and change them to what I want them to be!"
It's understandable that some people would resist this - Commander McLane is justified in feeling a little incensed by it, since he obviously puts a lot of himself into his OXP work. In my own case I was a little miffed that my original Imperial Courier was included in it when I specifically requested that it be removed.
It's my wory that this sort of thing is going to drive OXP makers away, and that's the point of this post. If people feel that thier OXP work is going to be critiqued, copied, ripped apart and rebuilt the way that ONE person (Les) wants, then they are not really going to be motivated to spend the time and effort to put a model together and build the stats for it. They would be as well just creating and texturing a model then sending it to Lestradae to do with as he will. Les is (sorry to be harsh) setting hmself up to be the unofficial clearing house for OXPs - they may fit in with Oolite's game model, but Lestradae will have to go in and change them all in order to make them work with his baby, and is that really something we want?
The spirit of free software isn't the fact of a licencing model, it's the concept of fair use and respecting the original developer. It's common to see the letter of the creative commons or GNU licencing system being used to defend the tearing apart of creative works. If a developer's freely available work is taken, ripped apart then put together in a way other than the original intended way then it's a morale stripper for that developer, even if they do get credited for the original concept. The most likely end result of this is developers becoming disillusioned with the product and backing off from developing any more.
Apologies if this comes across as unfair to Lestradae - as I said I do think that the RS concept is a good one, but it falls down on the fact that it involves directly editing other people's work and including it inside the OXP, thus breaking that original work. IMO the question of "is it OK to intentionally break another OXP" has already been answered in the negative (from feedback by people like McLane and Wolf) long ago but then has been ignored since that's EXACTLY what RS does and has always done - this is proven by the fact that if someone installed RS they have to remove any of the OXPs that are included in RS.
To finish, here's an objective suggestion: for RS to work as part of a community development I feel that it would have to be a stand alone product (NOT containing any third-party OXPS) that would check for other ship OXPs and modify their values as it found them WITHOUT CHANGING THE ORIGINAL FILES. Loading it into Oolite last then checking the installed OXPs would achieve this, I believe... Call the OXP ZZ_RealisticShipyards.oxp, and if anyone wants to write an OXP that would not be included all they have to do is name it ZZA_Whatever.oxp or something similar.
1. No one is going to tell me (or anyone else, btw) what I may use in my oxp and what not.
Exactly. Is someone wants to remove trumbles by OXP, or give the cobra 3 a max speed of zero, or anything else they are free to do so.
This, unfortunately applies equally to modifying or "breaking" RS features.
I dont see this as an issue of right and wrong -- if you dont like it, dont install the OXP. I presume you could event take the rest of Cataclysm (not a lawyer, etc. ) and add that into a new RS.
1. No one is going to tell me (or anyone else, btw) what I may use in my oxp and what not.
This was posted whilst I was typing my diatribe and to be honest I'm quite shocked.
That sort of attitude is exactly what will kill this sort of community. Tramping all over people's feelings is not a nice way to do business and will not win you supporters.
You are unwilling to listen to anyone else's opinion regarding RS, even from people whose work you have incorporated into the RS OXP. Without the original developers of those OXPs you wouldn't even have an OXP to defend as you would have had no "reason" to write it.
OK, I think we've had enough of this. Selezen, thank you for your thoughtful and fully objective post.
Lestradae, you are free to not install any OXP you don't like in the same way anyone is free to not install RS/OSE if they don't like what it does. Nobody can tell you how to write your OXP and you cannot tell anyone how to write theirs. In this particular case specifically, what you are asking for (restrict Cataclysm's effects only for the duration of its missions) can be achieved very easily by simply adding Cataclysm just before you are ready to start it and uninstalling it immediately after you are finished with it. Therefore, I don't see the point in this poll, which I find quite disturbingly worded, by the way. So far it has only succeeded in degrading relations between community members and this is not acceptable.
Commander McLane, it would probably be a good idea documenting in Cataclysm's readme what it does to the non-standard equipment so people don't encounter unexpected behaviours in their game.
Finally, I remind everyone involved that the keyword here is "game". It's supposed to be fun, so have fun with it instead of stabbing one another.
) revolves around your oxp
) and add that into a new RS.
