Oolite Bulletins

Cmdr James wrote:

good point from Commander McLane, who can clearly write more succinctly than me

Oh, nice to hear! (Although I have to admit that I didn't even know what it meant; I had to look it up: (succinct. adj., (especially of something written or spoken) briefly and clearly expressed) !)

Cmdr James wrote:

It is possible, but not a complete solution to simply cap trade in prices. This makes profit much harder, but does not fix the underlying problems.

But how do you set an appropriate cap for a ship’s price if you can’t calculate what the sensible resale value would be?

An alternative view is that allowing a player to buy cheap ships at high tech worlds, fit them up with top quality gear, and sell them for a profit at a low tech world is in fact an entirely reasonable business to allow players to be in. Its just like buying and selling used cars. I dont think I really like it, but its not so bad.

I have no problem with that sort of profit-making. The problem that led to the 25% “tax” was that you could sit in the same shipyard and buy kitted-out Adders (in my test) over and over again, making a ~10% profit on each iteration.

The 10% discount on equipment thing could well be a significant part of this.

A 25% "tax" isn't that bad a fix, if I've understood it correctly. After all, a new car drops dramatically in value as soon as you drive it off the forecourt of the garage where you bought it. People pay a premium for that new-ship smell, where you can shape the flight couch to your personal buttocks or buttock-equivalents, and where you don't have to think about what else might have been in the head before you... but I like the idea of low-tech worlds paying extra for access to high-tech upgrades: how else will they get them?

Its true that vehicals, presumably including Cobras and so on do depreciate pretty quick. There is also, as well as the 25% tax a system for managing the depreciation, which is controlled by getting a service or maintenance overhaul or something like that.

So in a way, you are punished twice for having an old ship, once for depreciation, and again for 25% tax.

Its also not really clear if the ships in the shipyard are new or used, I think they are (except for some oxp rust-buckets?) considered new, or at least, not depreciated.

I think there are a number of things to look at

* fix the price calculation so that it is consistent
* Decide if there should be a "sales tax", and if so, at which rate.
* might want to do some cleaning up of contracts when changing ship, passengers are dumped (which makes sense), not sure if anything weird happens with ups oxp, I suspect nothing changes?
* Maybe introduce a random element to the cost, so you sometimes get a bargain (extra 5% maximum reduction?) and sometimes they ask for more than its worth
* Fix the already raised things about aft and side weapon mounts
* I would like to see escape pods to cost different amounts for different ships, after all, they come with insurance, and the current rate is good for a cobra. A FdL should more more, no?

* Some things could be fun, like a few ships are real cheap, but have fugitive status (was used in an assasination, needs to be sold quick?) I guess things like this are for an oxp though.

Cmdr James wrote:

I would like to see escape pods to cost different amounts for different ships, after all, they come with insurance, and the current rate is good for a cobra. A FdL should more more, no?

Don’t get too creative here. The focus of Oolite is to be an improved Elite. Changing gameplay mechanics so that they actually make sense detracts from this goal. :-)

Yeah, I agree with that. In fact, I was thinking that it makes more sense if using an escape pod always returns you to a cobra, as that is the deal described in the elite manual (I think).


Anyway, Im not making any changes for escape pods, at least for the moment.

Hi.

That would make Escape pods pretty useless, as you would use loads of money using one...

I think most ships sold in the shipyard are used. Why would they come with sooo different fittings otherwise.

I just checked the figures for my old cobra:
Resell-value 1.65: 216 488
Resell-value 1.70: 164 842
I did not think it was THAT bad.

Cheers!
Timm

Hi.

[qoute]
I have no problem with that sort of profit-making. The problem that led to the 25% “tax” was that you could sit in the same shipyard and buy kitted-out Adders (in my test) over and over again, making a ~10% profit on each iteration.

The 10% discount on equipment thing could well be a significant part of this.[/quote]

Mhh. That really sounds like something to be avoided.
And that could not even result from different prices in different shipyards.

If I look in 1.65: I have two adders there, one standard (65 000) and one with a forward mil laser (87 000). Why is the price 12 000 higher and not 6000 - 10%? Could that lead to the problem described above?

Another question: Is there a reason that your just-sold ship does not appear in the list of ships for sale?

Cheers!
Timm

Different prices in different shipyards is perfectly reasonable, think of used car lots, not ever old car of a given type is the same price in every lot.

There is also (in trunk, maybe in 1.65, I dont have acess to the source right now) a correction for tech levels. So if you are at a system with a tech level too low to buy the military laser, it will cost much more than you expect.

Again, this is not done for the ship you are selling, so there is more inconsistent pricing going on.

Timm74 wrote:

Another question: Is there a reason that your just-sold ship does not appear in the list of ships for sale?

It's away being buffed and hoovered and having one of those price stickers pasted across the nose.