Oolite Bulletins

Matt64 wrote:

Interestingly, I originally had the stations rotating using the rotatingstation role. But, including this role wouldn't allow the station to have a specific commodity list and was launching random traders so I removed it. I figured the rotating /true command would yield the same result, but I was pleasantly surprised that it just made the station rotate without any icky side effects. Such is the mystery of Oolite roles.

The rotatingstation role was the original way to do this. It was later replaced by the rotating flag. But to stay compatible with old oxp the role method stayed in the code but should not be used any more.

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The ships have strong defenses. This was very helpful yesterday when I encountered a bunch (self created) pirates. I fled in the direction of the navy and the navy did it's job.

Just one advise. you have used an AI with name "minesweeperAI.plist" It is just a copy of LB's AI. But don't use his name. The second that loads will overwrite the fist one. When LB changes his AI for a new release he runs the risk that his new AI is overwritten by yours. Better use more complicated names for the AI.

I like the "navy medical ship". Have you noticed that it always has narcotics on board? This behavior left me puzzled in the past. I wanted to have customized cargo for some ships and saw that the medical moray always had narcotics on board. But I could not see how Giles did this to copy this trick for my own OXP. Until I say in the code that any ship with the phrase "Medical" in his name will always have narcotics as default cargo. (Only scooping up some actual cargo will change this default cargo)

McLaine wrote:

As a result of this nature of the combat zones I would expect the SecComs to be located in interstellar space as well, not in planetary space, where there is not much of a war. So the Galactic Navy, while on the one hand being quite active in war, is on the other hand not too visible for civilians, or harmless traders who never have the misfortune to misjump.

To create warzones in interstellar space one can define in shipData.plist also interstellar zones by defining the zone between two planets. It is explained in the wiki and Giles released its "weeviloid2.oxp" to demonstrate how it is working. Interstellar zones are programed in shipData.plist like the normal planets you have already used in your OXP. So create some adjacent your SecComs locations.

Thanks for all the consideration Commander McLane - I think we share a lot of the same visions of Oolite!

I too have always rationalized the war against the Thargoids as "only happening in Interstellar Space" and not in systems. That was until the I installed the excellent Thargoid Wars OXP which saw the conflict move closer to home. I was very interested to see you mention a type of planetary "warzone" because this is actually another frankenoxp running on my system. On a very rare occasion, 1% of jumps, a system will be turned into a warzone with dozens of pre-placed Navy Ships and Thargoids that respawn when they die so the action never stops! I could implement this in some kind of permanent way to create some "warzones" but I thought it would be too drastic a change for most Commanders

About you concerns regarding the placement of SecComs:
I agree the majority of what the Navy does happens in Interstellar Space and that was the primary reason I created this OXP, to make the Navy a little more visible. Without the OXP a commander may never get a glimpse of the Navy unless he misjumps. Having close military ties in my real life (what's left of it) this didn't make sense to me. Civilians will see much more of its Military outside of combat, especially if one lives in a city with a military base (as I do).

As far as SecComs on Behemoths or Anaconda's, my understanding was the wiki meant Sector Commanders, the actual person, not a ship or station. So, in my view anyway, this OXP fits perfectly, as the Sector Commaders (the good ones anyway) are out leading from the front in their flagships. I suppose some of the less daring ones could be back at their SecCom Stations hiding behind their desks while their officers do all the work

The SecCom stations are a home base for the Navy in that sector, and I think it makes sense for them to be in orbit around the planet just like it makes sense for military bases here to in the States to be located in San Francisco, Boston, or Colorado Springs. I could place them in Interstellar Space, but them I'm back to the same problem of never seeing the Navy unless I misjump.

As far as the Navy and its role as a part of Galcop, I was careful in my OXP to rarely if ever use the term Galcop to describe anything Navy. It's my belief, and probably entirely my own, that due to its largely independent nature already, the Galactic Navy eventually, sometime in the future, breaks away from Galcop and becomes its own entity. Perhaps this was one cause of Galcop's eventual downfall. Who knows, its all just future story line in my head that doesn't actual effect the game right now. Right now Galcop is the force in the Galaxy and controls everything we do to the best of their abilities.

you have used an AI with name "minesweeperAI.plist"

Thanks for catching this Eric! It was the only AI I didn't need to modify so I forgot to change the name. It's comforting to know that you're overlooking my OXP - especially the AI. I'm a big fan of the work you did with the Behemoth AI (being a Galactic Navy man) and want to thank you for all the info you add to the wiki helping out us "novice" AI scripters. I was very surprised and quite delighted that I somehow managed to get all my ships to do exactly what I wanted them to do. AI had been the downfall of a couple other OXP attempts of mine.

I did not know about the native cargo scripting for ships with the name "medical". Very interesting. Is it the actual <name> string that does this? I don't know if anyone read the wiki info included in the download, but I originally intended to have medical ships with search and rescue AI zipping around battlezones scoping up escape capsules in addition to the medical transport role they have now. The AI should be easy enough, and I'd have to add escape capsules to Navy Vipers and Asps, still not completely sold on the idea. I spend more time thinking about the mission I have planned for Galaxy 6... should be pretty neat. I hope to have it out before Christmas.

....cargo scripting for ships with the name "medical". Very interesting. Is it the actual <name> string that does this? ....

It must be part of the name as seen by the player. The name is converted to lowercase first, so one does not need to look at upper-or lowercase writing.

@matt634: The idea that a Navy becoming too powerful leads to the downfall of GalCop is nice. So the whole thing was drawn into some sort of a junta, and then ultimately came down?

Although you then need another explanation for the fact that both GalCop and the uber-Navy are vanishing without a trace. And the most common explanation is not connected to politics, but to the simple fact that somehow the wormhole between galaxies 1 and 2 collapsed, depriving GalCop of 87.5% of its members and resources and therefore of any power.

My main questionmark is at another point, though: I think that GalCop is a fairly low-profile thing. They are not a super-structure with a lot of executive power. Especially they are not a central government of any kind. Therefore your comparison to the US-Army being visible in US cities does not seem to the point to me. The worlds in Oolite are not parts of an empire that has its army everywhere. If I would seek an earthly analogy I would compare GalCop to the United Nations, not to any nation. And you don't see a lot of permanent presence of UN Blue-Helmet troops in Colorado Springs, do you? Or anywhere in the world, for that matter, except for regions of acute crisis (like the combat zones in Oolite). And even there they are not too publicly visible, if not on patrol. Their quarters tend to be not in the middle of cities, but at some well-guarded outside place.

Conclusion: You may see military presence of the planetary forces in orbit. (And there could be more of that in Oolite, although not too much.) But for the Galactic Navy I am still not convinced.

*****

Anyway, if I can't convince you to this admittedly non-minor change in your OXP, then may I ask you for a favour instead? To avoid a clash with an upcoming OXP of mine, could you move Navy Sector Command 7 in Galaxy 3 from Lezaer (system 2 5) to Rigebi (2 26)? I'm asking because in my OXP the Bixeinians (2 22) have to appeal for help to GalCop and the Galactic Navy, and they have to go all the way to Rigebi in order to do that. I had already put a (secret) Naval Command Ship in the interplanetary space between Rigebi and Riarribi (so you see, I was playing with the idea of some kind of a naval presence, too), and the line of systems from Amaza (2 110) to Onenqu (2 171) is just perfect for a run where the player has to do a lot of small jumps instead of few big ones, in order to save time (time is of the essence in my OXP). So I would be very grateful for that change.

In the middle of my hourly commute yesterday I came up with an interesting story line explaining the rise and fall of both the GalCop and Galactic Navy. What if, in the environment created by constant war with the Thargoids, the Galcop developed the Navy, which grew exponentially stronger as Military/Industrial Complexes tend to due when fed by decade after decade of warfare, until eventually the whole system collapses? See former Soviet Union. This would explain my admitted expansion of Navy Power and strengthen the idea that an organization could have an enormous amount of political/military power only to collapse a few decades later.

I have to disagree that Galcop is low profile thing. They are the force in Oolite. They control the trade lanes between every planet in the galaxy! I do agree there is not a substantial source of centralized power, and I think my SecComs reflect that fact. I also don't think your UN argument is very analogous. The UN doesn't have military bases because it doesn't have a standing army. It uses military forces from other countries like the US that do have high profile bases in major cities - Colorado Springs has 4! Galcop does have its own military which therefore requires bases and infrastructure.

Friendly debate aside, I would be happy to move the SecCom to Rigebi. I'll have to move the SecCom at Ceisge as well because the two would be awful close, but that's no problem.

I'm making some significant progress on the Wiki. Right now all the info is linked to the Galactic Navy OXP page, but I'll eventually get it worked into the Galactic Navy page listed in the Article Index.

There has to be a link between GalCop and the individual worlds, otherwise there would be *more* police in Anarchies and *less* in Corporate States. GalCop is a decentralised co-operative institution agreed on by all participating systems (i.e. all the planets in Oolite), where each planet supplies a certain number of pilots and funds a certain number of ships, which then operate independently of the planets' government(s) to maintain some degree of order in the space-lanes and especially around the stations. The planets benefit through increased trade, and all traders can recognise the authority of one ooniversal police force. Local laws and interplanetary ones rub up against each other with regard to e.g. slaves, firearms and narcotics: they're all legal to buy, and to sell: but they're all illegal (in the eyes of GalCop) to ship out of a station.

GalCop is older than the Navy, which was a later creation designed to deal with the Thargoid threat. Operating mostly in deep space, away from the individual planets, it's become increasingly a power in its own right. As the Thargoids have been pushed back, reduced mostly to a few commerce raiders, the Navy begins to weigh heavier on the various systems' governments. Do they need it? Who controls it? It was all very well when we faced imminent destruction, but now... In fact, we're starting to see some systems begin to pull away from the Navy, and from GalCop too: the Communist worlds have collectively colluded to produce their own military/police vessels (and who-knows-what inside those CZGFs), and the Dictatorships have begun to do the same (funded, I suspect, by anti-Communist Corporate States).

Are we sleepwalking into the outbreak of war between the systems? The Communists making a break for independence, and possible expansion, menaced by Dictatorships in the pay of Corporates... the Navy might feel obliged to try to restore a little "order" to the situation, as well as remove any nascent peacenik threat to their own funding. They could begin to usurp the role of GalCop, whom they feel are too decentralised and too much under the influence of individual systems. GalCop would no doubt resent any such authoritarian centralising manouevres, as they're sworn to uphold systems' rights as well as enforcing general trade protocols. Lines are being drawn, sides are being chosen...

The Democracies and Confederacies will probably side with GalCop, the Commies will want to strike out on their own (and "liberate" the oppressed workers of Dictatorships and Feudal planets, as well as the Corporate wage-slaves). The Dictatorship systems will likely be the military arm of the Corporates, seeking to contain (and overthrow) the expansionist Communists. Feudal warlords will look for easy pickings where they can, and Multi-Government and Anarchy worlds will be swamped in the welter of their own internal confusions.

The first signs would be flareups between neighbouring systems: well-organised "pirate" bands making privateering raids against certain types of systems. Traders get edgier. Even the Moray Medicals will start to get twitchy on the trigger.

Interesting times...

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I've given a fair bit of thought to "the fall of GalCop" too (am planning a couple of stories set during the early stages of its demise, though these are even further off than the next OXP), and I discussed the issue with Selezen a while back. I'm sure he won't mind me quoting him:

GalCop forces are stretched pretty thin - the Navy is primarily involved with Thargoid incursions, but there are some units that patrol disputed systems that are in the area of space also occupied by the Empire. In these areas there is also a huge police presence. Thargoid fronts are bolstered by reserve units (civilian pilots in active military service) but the line is fine. When the Thargoids torn up the heat, GalCop finds itself really stretched and has no option but to appeal for aid to the other two main powers in the area. Internal politics in GalCop don't help much (as some of my future stories will highlight) and that's what ultimately leads to GalCop's collapse.

That pretty much tallies with how I like to imagine things unfolding as well. I see GalCop as having a massive, runaway (as you suggested, Matt) military budget, and a growing deficit. Weak leadership (and a degree of infiltration by the other powers) ensures that nothing is done to remedy the situation. Then Thargoid attacks increase dramatically, meaning that the military suddenly require much greater funding just to stand still, while at the same time GalCop's income takes a nosedive (as trade routes are blocked and systems lost/destroyed). GalCop then has no choice but to turn to the Empire and the Federation for military assistance. Which they are happy to provide - for a price. The Feds and Imperials end up acquiring just about all of GalCop's advanced technologies (the fruit of that runaway budget), as well as owning large stakes in key corporations in GalCop space. The Thargoids are then defeated (suspiciously easily?), and the stage is set for the final, overt scramble for territory as the wormhole collapses and GalCop finds itself divided, outmatched technologically and bankrupt.

@ Roberto - Sounds good, but you said:

Roberto wrote:

The Feds and Imperials end up acquiring just about all of GalCop's advanced technologies, as well as owning large stakes in key corporations in GalCop space.

In actuality, the Feds and Imps are far in advance of GalCop in terms of tehnology. To quote Selz (he's quite the authority on galactic 'history'):

Selezen's Seldar Shipyards Wiki Entry wrote:

The Imperial Navy were not amused by the release of the Seldar Imperial Courier and petitioned GalCop for its withdrawal. GalCop ordered a full investigation, ordering Seldar to hand over copies of the design and manufacturing specifications. Once these had been perused by the Imperial Navy, the complaint was withdrawn on the grounds that only the hull had been used - internally the ship was far inferior to anything that His Majesty's Navy could produce.

If Oolite follows a timeline analogous to Elite, F:E2 and FFE, then in the interval in which GalCop collapses either the major powers (Duvalian Empire, Terran Federation and Alliance of Independent Systems) develop the different classes of hyperdrive or they already have them and their use becomes more widespread.

Captain Hesperus

Selezen is indeed quite the authority - but while adhering broadly to his overall framework, I allow myself a bit of wiggle room

If the Feds and Imps are far in advance of GalCop technologically at the time of Oolite, what's to stop them (particularly the Empire) from simply kicking GalCop's ass and taking over right away? I prefer to think that while they have some cool hyperdrives in the works (those used in Frontier), these are at an early stage of development/prohibitively expensive at the time of Oolite, and so the Feds/Imps are playing the long game. The Thargoid war (and its crippling effect on GalCop's ecomony) provides them with the opportunity to strengthen their position relative to GalCop, at the same time as acquiring the fruits of its vast R&D budget. This additional tech *plus* their own hyperdrive technology is what puts them in an unassailable position. Well, in my version of events anyway

*EDIT* Note also that the Alliance doesn't come into existence until 3230.

I never played Elite or Frontier, so all I know about them is what I've read on the boards and in the wiki. Where, if anywhere, is the Duvalian Empire located in Oolite? Is this who we work for in the constrictor/thargoid plans missions? Excuse my ignorance, Oolite is my first foray into the world of elite

internally the ship was far inferior to anything that His Majesty's Navy could produce.

I think this quote was referring to the work done by Seldar Shipyards and not Galcop. It seems that Galcop was only responsible for the investigation not any of the technology. Other sources in the Wiki, the Galactic Navy page specifically, indicate that the technology possessed by Galcop's military is extremely advanced.

This much is known - the Navy is well enough equipped to hold its own against the superior numbers of the Thargoid race.

EDIT:
After doing a bit of research I answered my own questions regarding Elite/Frontier and how Galcop, the Empire, and Alliance fit together. I am assuming then that "Her Majesty's Imperial Navy" is some nondescript empire within Oolite?

Where, if anywhere, is the Duvalian Empire located in Oolite?

Nowhere, is the short answer to that Oolite basically uses the same galactic maps as Elite, showing only GalCop systems. Frontier's map, by contrast, shows Federation, Imperial and independent systems, but hardly any that appear in Elite (apart from a few around Lave). The best way to reconcile the two "game worlds" is to conjecture that the Imperial systems and others are there in Elite/Oolite, but you can't see them - because GalCop has locked them out of the navigational computers of all the ships sold within its space.

Selezen goes into all this stuff in much more detail on his site.

*EDIT* Ah, I was too slow But I think Selezen was referring to the same Empire we encounter in Frontier, "His Majesty" being Emperor Duval (whichever one it is/was at the time of Oolite!).

"Her Majesty's Imperial Navy" being the organization behind the Constrictor/Thargoid Plans missions.

Oh! I must have skimmed over that when I did the Constrictor mission. I always assumed I was working for the Galactic Navy... Doesn't really fit very well, does it?

*Clutches at straws* Perhaps the term is some kind of in-joke within one Galactic Navy sector?

The issue of technological difference is an interesting one... the Frontier Federation and Imperial ships have better witchspace drives, with variable ranges, but the Elite/Oolite ships have an advantage when it comes to in-system flight: the Torus jump-drive and the good old non-Newtonian thrusters. I say, bring on the Imperial and Federation statist swine! If they ever try lumbering over here we'll kick their saggy arses across the sector!