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Re: [Proposal] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:58 am
by Wildeblood
DavidKroc wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:07 pm
another_commander wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2025 7:30 am
The Expansion Manager just uses whatever you have put in the description field in the oxz manifest. In the case of Sidewinder NG the description reads as "Sidewinder NG", which is what is shown.
Ok. I'll fix that in version 1.5.
Yeah. Cholmondely's explanation was better.
Re: [Proposal] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2025 9:18 am
by DavidKroc
DavidKroc wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:07 pm
another_commander wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2025 7:30 am
The Expansion Manager just uses whatever you have put in the description field in the oxz manifest. In the case of Sidewinder NG the description reads as "Sidewinder NG", which is what is shown.
Ok. I'll fix that in version 1.5.
I updated Sidewinder NG's OXZ from v1.4 to v1.5 on wiki.alioth.net but the Expansion Manager doesn't seem to parse it automatically.
What should I do to make it read OXZ content again?
Re: [Proposal] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2025 11:28 am
by another_commander
Jsut kicked off a manual rebuild of the catalog, should have the result in about 30 minutes from posting this.
Re: [Proposal] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2025 11:30 am
by DavidKroc
another_commander wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 11:28 am
Jsut kicked off a manual rebuild of the catalog, should have the result in about 30 minutes from posting this.
It worked! Thanks.
Re: [Proposal] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2025 7:21 pm
by Cholmondely
Editorial nitpicking!
When you feel your OXP is ready, you might wish to edit the very first post in the thread which should allow you to change the thread title from [Proposal] Sidewinder NG to [Release] Sidewinder NG.
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2025 8:05 pm
by DavidKroc
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 7:21 pm
Editorial nitpicking!
When you feel your OXP is ready, you might wish to edit the very first post in the thread which should allow you to change the thread title from [Proposal] Sidewinder NG to [Release] Sidewinder NG.
You're right. Done.
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 10:29 am
by DavidKroc
another_commander wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 11:28 am
Jsut kicked off a manual rebuild of the catalog, should have the result in about 30 minutes from posting this.
Could you, please, launch another manual rebuild? I've uploaded v1.6 OXZ that removed fuel scoops option because of the Sidewinder NG small size.
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 12:12 pm
by another_commander
OK, done. Note that the catalog is rebuilt automatically also on the 1st day of each month.
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 1:21 pm
by DavidKroc
Ok. I'll try to sync next releases with that.
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:02 pm
by DavidKroc
Hi,
When I updated
the screenshot for the GalCop Sidewinder NG, I discovered that
CombatMFD displays a
very low
1.7 T (1700 Kg / 3748 lb) for the Sidewinder NG.
As I was very surprised of such a tiny mass for a 21 x 4 x 15m ship, I started searching how this mass was computed and found on
this page that on Oolite mass is directly proportional to the volume.
The next step was to compute Sidewinder NG volume. This was pretty hard because I've almost never used any 3D software before.
Anyway, after some search on this forum I've found downloadable Sidewinder 3D models from
Griff website. I downloaded Blender, its Print3D expansion and with all this I got the volume of the NG: 294.39 m³.
So, 1700 Kg for 294.39 m³ gives a very low medium density of 5,77 kg/m³ for the Sidewinder.
It's pretty difficult to found "real" values to compare, but according
this page, the Space Shuttle was 23 x 17 x 37 m (W x H x L) for 78T (empty) and the volume was 965 m³ (found
there). That gives us a medium density for the Space Shuttle of 80,83 kg/m³ (which I think is much more realistic).
So, my questions are:
- How the ship mass is really computed in relation to volume in Oolite?
- If mass really is only directly proportional to volume, wouldn't it be better to add a base weight and volume for engines + cockpit + weapons + fuel tank, and - only then - apply a weight coefficient for the remaining cargo volume?
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:09 pm
by Cholmondely
DavidKroc wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:02 pm
Hi,
When I updated
the screenshot for the GalCop Sidewinder NG, I discovered that
CombatMFD displays a
very low
1.7 T (1700 Kg / 3748 lb) for the Sidewinder NG.
As I was very surprised of such a tiny mass for a 21 x 4 x 15m ship, I started searching how this mass was computed and found on
this page that on Oolite mass is directly proportional to the volume.
The next step was to compute Sidewinder NG volume. This was pretty hard because I've almost never used any 3D software before.
Anyway, after some search on this forum I've found downloadable Sidewinder 3D models from
Griff website. I downloaded Blender, its Print3D expansion and with all this I got the volume of the NG: 294.39 m³.
So, 1700 Kg for 294.39 m³ gives a very low medium density of 5,77 kg/m³ for the Sidewinder.
It's pretty difficult to found "real" values to compare, but according
this page, the Space Shuttle was 23 x 17 x 37 m (W x H x L) for 78T (empty) and the volume was 965 m³ (found
there). That gives us a medium density for the Space Shuttle of 80,83 kg/m³ (which I think is much more realistic).
So, my questions are:
- How the ship mass is really computed in relation to volume in Oolite?
- If mass really is only directly proportional to volume, wouldn't it be better to add a base weight and volume for engines + cockpit + weapons + fuel tank, and - only then - apply a weight coefficient for the remaining cargo volume?
Caveat: I'm a dumb pilot, not a programmer.
If you look at Captain Beatnik's
Pitviper wiki page, you will see that he made a whole thing of using it to ram other ships. When I probed this, he mentioned that he had tweaked the
density to facilitate this. I suspect that mass is directly proportional to volume unless the density has been tweaked. Hope that helps.
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:11 pm
by Cholmondely
I suspect that most ship designers don't go into this apart from a handful such as yourself.
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:30 pm
by DavidKroc
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:09 pm
If you look at Captain Beatnik's
Pitviper wiki page, you will see that he made a whole thing of using it to ram other ships. When I probed this, he mentioned that he had tweaked the
density to facilitate this. I suspect that mass is directly proportional to volume unless the density has been tweaked. Hope that helps.
That was the right clue, thanks a lot! According
this page:
This real value is used to calculate a ships total mass. Default is 1.0. The mass of the ship is then 20 * density * volume.
Default density is 1.0, Sidewinder NG volume should be 294.39, so according this page I should see a mass of: 20x1.0x294.39 = 5887,8 Kg (5.8T).
But that's not what I see on CombatMFD, so what's written on the page I linked must be wrong. But never mind, I'll try varying the density and see what happens. My goal is to get a mass of 10-15T (closer to the 80 kg/m³ of the Space Shuttle density).
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:11 pm
I suspect that most ship designers don't go into this apart from a handful such as yourself.
Maybe I'm a bit crazy.
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2025 9:02 pm
by DavidKroc
With a density set to 6.9 I got a mass of 11.5T, which is better for me now according NG's size, as a real life war (navy) ship builder.
Re: [Release] Sidewinder NG
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 9:18 am
by DavidKroc
For those of you who want to give it a try, I've uploaded two savegames on the wiki page that allow you to start Oolite with a Sidewinder NG in Easy or Normal mode.
Here are the direct download links:
