Combat game or trading game? You decide.

[hiran]

I suspect I'm not the only one with literally dozens of started, but never finished, OXP ideas littering their drives. So I enthusiastically support anything hiran does to streamline the process. I'm just saying, I wouldn't necessarily start with "mission" OXPs.

Obviously you have more experience in OXP development than I do.
Where do you see pain points?

[Wildeblood]

Thanks for the elaborate explanation.

Reads like sarcasm.

Yet as a player I just don't care.

That's the spirit!

It would be nice if some further plot could be identified just by playing long enough - similar like I mentioned in Starflight.

You (and Cholmondely) seem to be saying that, as a sandbox game, Oolite actually fails, and that you do notice it's just a grind. Once the graduated success of filling the F5 screen with every equipment item is complete, you'd like it to transition to a story-based game, because grinding away to reach Elite millionaire scores... yeah, nah.
Is that a fair interpretation of your position?

I've never heard of Starflight, tell us more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starflight

Set in the year 4620, the game puts players in the role of a starship captain sent to explore the galaxy. There is no set path, allowing players to switch freely between mining, ship-to-ship combat, and alien diplomacy.[3] The broader plot of the game emerges slowly, as the player discovers that an ancient race of beings is causing stars to flare and destroy all living creatures.

Interesting that Oolite also has the possibility of stars going nova and incinerating their planets (allegedly). I suppose with sufficient effort you could morph Oolite into something like Starflight.

Going back to the original topic it was not even whether missions are necessary but how to make mission creation easier.

Yes, but this isn't that topic, this is the thread where Cholmondely and I philosophize about the deeper meaning of "missions" in gameplay, and invite random internet people to join in our musings.

After all I believe we might have better and more complete missions if it were easier.

I want templates. I want a web form that says, "Would you like to create your own OXP?"

Click yes.

"What style of OXP are you making?" [Ship] [Equipment] [Mission]

Click equipment.

"You will need to create at least the following files:"
File listing.
"Click here to download a zip archive containing template files."

I'd like to see a hundred people join the forum and ask, "I downloaded the Beer Cooler template, and now I have a Peanut Dispenser in my equipment list, now what do I do to make it actually do something?"

I'd rather that than have people posting, "I've been working on my new OXP for weeks, it's great, it does this, this and this."
And the next day, the replies: "Doesn't work on my Mac."
Because someone didn't realize real OSs have case sensitive filenames.

As a general rule: always use a template, if one is available.

I'd also like that bloody music to stop.

[Wildeblood]

Here's a youtube video I've been meaning to link to since it was published about month ago. This is as good a place as any, since it's broadly on our topic of how games maintain user engagement.

https://youtu.be/VJG2dli2LTg?si=Ih7L0Apmim85MTy0

Video games have evolved over time. What started as a meritocracy of peer to peer competition... has now become a constantly changing maze of parameters designed to manipulate the player base, keep them online, and cause them to spend.

With clearly defined systems (patented by companies like Activision Blizzard and Electronic Arts, and exposed by executives now working for Ubisoft) designed to award wins and losses, or change even basic fundamental mechanics such as "player aim"... Video games no longer exist to be played... they exist to play their users.

[hiran]

You (and Cholmondely) seem to be saying that, as a sandbox game, Oolite actually fails, and that you do notice it's just a grind. Once the graduated success of filling the F5 screen with every equipment item is complete, you'd like it to transition to a story-based game, because grinding away to reach Elite millionaire scores... yeah, nah.
Is that a fair interpretation of your position?

It is not the game that transitions. It is the player's focus.
Take 'The collector' as an example. I started playing Oolite and very quickly installed the beginner's OXP collection that Norby had created. So a huge number of OXPs are in my Ooniverse and I do not notice as I do not know the vanilla game. The Collector was amongst them.

As long as I was concerned with surviving and with that in money making I did not notice much else. When making money was covered (due to my lack of both piloting and trading skills I did what I'm good at: hack the savegame) I am now not tied to trade. I'm still not good at combat but confident to get out of an encounter alive.

This is when I started noticing the hints that were given all the time and decided to follow up and find the collector.

I suppose with sufficient effort you could morph Oolite into something like Starflight.

I do not intend to copy the starflight plot. Yet I'd like a background story that is bigger than just the player, the player's ship and money.

Yes, but this isn't that topic, this is the thread where Cholmondely and I philosophize about the deeper meaning of "missions" in gameplay, and invite random internet people to join in our musings.

True. Your thread, not mine.

I want templates. I want a web form that says, "Would you like to create your own OXP?"

Click yes.

"What style of OXP are you making?" [Ship] [Equipment] [Mission]

Click equipment.

"You will need to create at least the following files:"
File listing.
"Click here to download a zip archive containing template files."

I'd like to see a hundred people join the forum and ask, "I downloaded the Beer Cooler template, and now I have a Peanut Dispenser in my equipment list, now what do I do to make it actually do something?"

Hey that is indeed meaningful. And at least the template part is easy to do. A really low hanging fruit. We do not even need to code - pure HTML like on our website or some nicely constructed wiki pages are sufficient!

I added the Start your own OXP wiki section. Next up, let's review the three subpages' content and create the template files.

I'd rather that than have people posting, "I've been working on my new OXP for weeks, it's great, it does this, this and this."
And the next day, the replies: "Doesn't work on my Mac."
Because someone didn't realize real OSs have case sensitive filenames.

As a general rule: always use a template, if one is available.

We are definitely on the same mission striving to reduce effort and increase success rate.

I'd also like that bloody music to stop.

Music? What music?

I only know of two tracks: The one played when loading Olite, and the other when watching the docking computer doing it's job.

The first one can be skipped when loading Oolite without the splash screen. Something that OoliteStarter does automatically.
The other one - well as a dumb pilot with enough dosh I never watch the docking computer. Either I dock manually, or I press Shift-L Shift-C, which will time-warp me into the station.

Was it not arquaebus who wanted to finish a jukebox that would play music depending on context?

When does the docking computer upgrade so it can take over planetary landings?

[Cholmondely]

How many different types of game are possible other than combat, trading and the poorly implemented exploration?

And do we have any relevant OXPs extant for them?

And should we add some relevant categories ("trade"/"exploration") to our Expansions Manager and reclassify what we have to flag this up? I feel that combat is already covered (Weapons).

Or add relevant flavours to the menu in Oolite Starter?



Edited to Add: there's Racing too, isn't there?

[Wildeblood]

How many different types of game are possible other than combat, trading and the poorly implemented exploration?

Strategy - you be the admiral of the fleet, positioning your forces to best defend against the approaching Thargoid invasion fleet.
World-building - twiddle your public policy settings and watch your planet's population, economy and technology grow. Compare your progress to other nearby planets that have adopted different policies.
Text adventure - all done in mission screens while docked.

The game mechanics of many traditional board games or card games can be mapped into Oolite space with sufficient ingenuity.

Back when we first learned the colour of background space can be changed from black to blue, we speculated about a submarine simulator.

Speaking of submarines, I watched "Hunter/Killer" last night. Silly movie, not recommended.

[Cholmondely]

Strategy - I'd see this more as a version of combat

World-building - we have this to an extent with Phkb's Hermitage. And DGill's current work on Feudal States is tending in this direction too (what happens when you are gifted lands on the Feudal State?).

Text adventure - is this not more of a technique than a game type? I've seen exploration "text adventures" (one of Hiran's itch.io links)




Any others?

[hiran]

Was it not arquaebus who wanted to finish a jukebox that would play music depending on context?

Found it:
https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Conte ... ukebox_OXP
and
viewtopic.php?t=21128