External Docking

[phkb]

What you just stated seems (to me) to contradict this.

There are two aspects to this. There is the Oolite game code, and the OpenGL internal code. Oolite game code works the same way we do, with a non-player-centric world-view. The OpenGL code has interfaces which the Oolite game code links to, keeping all the internals of scene management nicely tucked away. So, the Oolite game code is non-player-centric, and understands things like ships, the player, planets etc. The OpenGL code understands things like scenes, objects, light sources etc. Does that make more sense?

[phkb]

Question: Would it be too much of an immersion break if you dock at one of the external ports on the Nuit station, but then launch from the main dock? Not thinking about big ships here (Star Destroyer, Andromeda, etc), just normal player ships.

[hiran]

Question: Would it be too much of an immersion break if you dock at one of the external ports on the Nuit station, but then launch from the main dock? Not thinking about big ships here (Star Destroyer, Andromeda, etc), just normal player ships.

We could ignore this for the time being and see where we get. It is a start definetly.

[phkb]

That went pretty well, and better than I expected! I shouldn't have worried about the launch point - I got it working relatively easily.

So, here's a demo of using the external docking ports on a Nuit Station to dock with it.
YouTube: Oolite 1.91 - external docking at Nuit

I dock twice with the station in the video: once with clearance, and once without.

Q: What about NPCs?
A: NPCs will not use the external docking ports at this time. It's a player only thing. However, I'm working on having some random docks be unavailable because there is a ship parked at the port.

Q: What happens if you are told to wait when you request docking?
A: The wait is for the main dock. If the external docking port flashers are on, you can dock at the external port without penalty.

Q: Can this be added to other stations?
A: Yes.

Q: Can you dock at Torus speeds?
A: Err, no. You must be going less than 100m/s otherwise you will crash into the station.

Q: Do you have to be aligned in a particular way?
A: No, you just need to be able to approach the centre flasher.

What do you think?

[hiran]

Q: What about NPCs?
A: NPCs will not use the external docking ports at this time. It's a player only thing. However, I'm working on having some random docks be unavailable because there is a ship parked at the port.

Definitely a good start. Will have to check the video later.

Q: If some of the docking pads may be unavailable/occupied randomly, when does this randomness happen? It would look weird if - while watching the station - would pop up or swallow other ships without them flying in or out. Even more it would be critical if a docking pad turned into 'busy' just before I docked.

[phkb]

Definitely a good start. Will have to check the video later.

Q: If some of the docking pads may be unavailable/occupied randomly, when does this randomness happen? It would look weird if - while watching the station - would pop up or swallow other ships without them flying in or out. Even more it would be critical if a docking pad turned into 'busy' just before I docked.

The randomness happens at spawn, and won’t change afterwards (ie while you remain in the system)

[hiran]

Definitely a good start. Will have to check the video later.

Q: If some of the docking pads may be unavailable/occupied randomly, when does this randomness happen? It would look weird if - while watching the station - would pop up or swallow other ships without them flying in or out. Even more it would be critical if a docking pad turned into 'busy' just before I docked.

The randomness happens at spawn, and won’t change afterwards (ie while you remain in the system)

Good idea.

[Cholmondely]

That went pretty well, and better than I expected! I shouldn't have worried about the launch point - I got it working relatively easily.

...

Q: What about NPCs?
A: NPCs will not use the external docking ports at this time. It's a player only thing. However, I'm working on having some random docks be unavailable because there is a ship parked at the port.

Q: What happens if you are told to wait when you request docking?
A: The wait is for the main dock. If the external docking port flashers are on, you can dock at the external port without penalty.

Q: Can this be added to other stations?
A: Yes.

Q: Can you dock at Torus speeds?
A: Err, no. You must be going less than 100m/s otherwise you will crash into the station.

Q: Do you have to be aligned in a particular way?
A: No, you just need to be able to approach the centre flasher.

What do you think?

Brilliant! Well done sir!! Araminta has leaned on cousin Digby to organise a life-time pass for you at the Admiralty Bar. You will never have to pay for your pink gin ever again!

Wonderful!


Off the top of my head (and speaking just for myself, and not anticipating any more action currently):

1) Finances
These ports on the Nuit are designed for the BIG ships. And there are just the four of them. And they would have been expensive additions to the station. So there should be a hefty docking fee (easily payable by a luxury liner laden with wealthy passengers) - which should be applied in full even if you are docking at one of them in a Cobra Mk.3. This would require warning the player - and would also require the station to do something, so some sort of docking procedure might be required.

But! That's if you can dock with a Cobra Mk.3! The small ship would presumably have to be modified to be able to dock at those massive port doors. An Adder or Asp might not have the space on the hull to allow it! But it should be a different matter at the External Dock of Limbo's Rock Hermit (but that too might also need a different and smaller paid-for modification to dock there).

There should be at least two modifications. One is the modification to allow docking. The second is sideways thrusters (see alignment, below).


2) BGS
We will probably need a more suitable BGS docking sequence. I'm not sure if it is doable using the usual BGS technique (the folded over texture). Maybe just nothing? Or some other experience (I understand that there are other "enablers" built into BGS/Library).

We're not flying through a tunnel as with interior docking. We're individual people "walking" through it (maybe a moving escalator? ...but then, how would cargo be handled?), in and out of our ship. Or maybe we take some sort of flitter or buggy through the long struts into the heart of the Nuit station. Ideally some sort of sequence of travelling through a tunnel ending in say a HDBG screen showing the station lobby - or the inside of the ship (either another lobby for a liner/Andromeda/Imperial Star Destroyer etc. or something more prosaic for my Cobra Mk.3).


3) Sideways docking
Is it possible to modify things so that one is "doing" the docking through the port or starboard Viewscreens?


4) Alignment
The alignment (to my mind) should be crucial. Ideally the alignment flashers should help on the approach (probably a lot of work to manage this), flying forwards to be beside the dock. Then using side thrusters to edge the ship slowly sideways towards the dock.


5) Time.
This is more relevant for the Nuit. Those long spindly arms. It would take time to onload/offload - getting things through those arms into the main body of the station itself. Especially liner passengers who would want to gawk at the goodies in the station lobbys.

Assuming that the arms could manage simultaneous movement in both directions, my cargo could be unloaded into the strut pretty quickly and I could get credited for it. But if I buy anything, it has to come from the main hub all the way down the struts to my ship. It will take forever!

And, all the time, I'm paying more and more in order to occupy that external dock all by myself!


6) Hoodlums.
There is also the issue of the Hoodlums. Dastards such as the dreaded and demoniacal Drew Wagar who merrily drop Q-bombs in Orbital GraveYards, and who would just ram their ships into an external dock willy-nilly, wrecking it for anybody else. We might eventually wish to show a damaged external dock.


References

1) Limbo's Rock Hermit

Edited
...Donaldson's Gap cycle is how I imagine space would be. Grotty, sleazy - life being cheap. Making Weimar Berlin look like a teddy bear's marshmallow picnic.
Traders and miners and such would need to wear EVA to get inside. The high cost of personal storage at a station would necessitate having to wear the suit inside. There would probably be areas which the owners of the station wouldn't oxygenate.
Only the very very wealthy would have any form of... niceties.

2) External docking Sequence
Starts at 11.30 minutes [urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwMybd7iuXM]into the film[/url]
(from Flight of Nova - thanks, Cody!)

This is far too complex for us, but gives a general idea


Concluding Unscientific Postscript
I'm hardly infallible! Any other ideas? Anything I've got wrong? Or missed?

[cim]

Query: IS the difficulty in allowing External Docking tied in with the dock needing to be along the Z-azis of the station?

That's only strictly true of rotating stations - because if the dock isn't on and aligned with the axis of rotation, the centre of the dock will constantly move in worldspace, so the flight pattern needed to dock with it becomes impossibly complex, unless you "cheat" with a frame callback to reposition the docking ship in a way which simulates the appropriate lateral thrust.
(Because launching ships get clear fast enough, off-axis rotating docks can handle launches fine)

The more general case is that the dock needs to be aligned on the Z-axis of the *entity*, which would normally be a station sub-entity, and the sub-entity doesn't need to be aligned the same way as the station main entity. This is just a convention as it provides an easy way to say "which way is the dock pointing" without needing a separate "dock_direction" quaternion property - you sort that bit out when attaching the subentity to the main entity.

Proximity-checking but to make a ship look like it's docked it needs to be so close it risks math-rounding error collisions.

This is what the "addCollisionException" function is for. https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolit ... nException

When it gets close enough in the external docking process, add the exception, then remove it once it's clear again.

The altmap OXP I used for various experiments has a "resupply shuttle" component where shuttles will launch from a station, dock externally with a nearby freighter (fairly crudely, since I never got around to making custom models for either), transfer cargo, then undock and take the cargo back to the station - with use of that function to cover the loose edges as they get close.

[hiran]

3) Sideways docking
Is it possible to modify things so that one is "doing" the docking through the port or starboard Viewscreens?

Sideways docking is THE THING!
It would after all reenact the meaning of 'port', and give a completely new meaning to 'starboard'!

[Cholmondely]

Sideways docking is THE THING!
It would after all reenact the meaning of 'port', and give a completely new meaning to 'starboard'!

You do know that port was originally "larboard"?


This is also the origin of the term "posh" - somebody who wanted to face the north side of London when leaving the port (Port Outwards bound) - and again face North on the return (Starboard Homewards bound)

[hiran]

Sideways docking is THE THING!
It would after all reenact the meaning of 'port', and give a completely new meaning to 'starboard'!

You do know that port was originally "larboard"?


This is also the origin of the term "posh" - somebody who wanted to face the north side of London when leaving the port (Port Outwards bound) - and again face North on the return (Starboard Homewards bound)

I thought it was related to the way the ships were built. On one side they had the load/unload facility and for better maneuvering the rudder (or steering) was on the other side. Of course they always docked with the same side facing the port and it was the port side.

[cbr]

So, here's a demo of using the external docking ports on a Nuit Station to dock with it.
YouTube: Oolite 1.91 - external docking at Nuit

I dock twice with the station in the video: once with clearance, and once without.

What do you think?

Looked believable!

[phkb]

Nuit station with some docked liners:

[Cholmondely]

Nuit station with some docked liners:

This one looks believable too!