Oolite Bulletins

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:58 am

For a kind of animation, lets say moving wings, we would need multiple subentities simulating the entire process. Remove one and add another one until the new position is reached.

It seems I'm not explaining myself adequately lately
That's what I meant with this:

Redspear wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:52 pm

Don't forget however that if it can 'change shape' then it can be animated. The rest is just a matter of sufficient frames and appropriate timing.

It 'changes shape' (in reference to by hiran's remark) by either removing or replacing a subent.

"Sufficient frames" (in this case subentities) would be determined by the range and speed ("timing") of motion desired.

If hiran imagines "moving wings" that change position slowly then that could be a lot of subentries but if it happens pretty fast then five might be enough for an in-game effect.

Given that it would be the same wing in different positions then it might be possible to even use the same subentity just recorded in various slightly different positions withon the shipdata file.

...Maybe I need to work on my English

Cody wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:57 am

montana05 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:45 pm

I remove the subentity of the fighter and spawn an actual fighter at the liners position.

Griff does something similar with his Cobra III missile subents.

One of the liners is starting shuttles like that, the major difference is that the orientation to the mothership is calculated as well, a process I skip. I could also recall some moving elements at a station, I think it was Thargoid.

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:15 am

It seems I'm not explaining myself adequately lately

Your English is certainly better than mine, I would blame posts I didn't read while I was writing mine.

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:22 am

...I would blame posts I didn't read while I was writing mine.

Easily done.

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:43 am

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:22 am

...I would blame posts I didn't read while I was writing mine.

Easily done.

I didn't do anything with FX effects for years, do you think it could be adapted, at least for static objects ?

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:46 am

I didn't do anything with FX effects for years, do you think it could be adapted, at least for static objects ?

I'm just theorising unfortunately, although that has resulted in my having to actually provide proof of concept before (see the rescaling experiment thread - if you've got a spare hour ).

I don't see why it couldn't be done but then I've never worked with subentries before. There could easily be some requirement or limitation that I'm unaware of.

There are also visual effects to consider.

Imagine a ship with no actual wings but rather wings done as a visual effect. Would likely have the problem that lasers would pass straight through the wings but that needn't be a big problem; arguably that's exactly what a powerful laser should do in some instances and a small hole in a 'wing' in space might not count as significant damage.

Thinking is much easier than programming for me but when it 'can't be done' I find it's usually that it's impractical rather than impossible.

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:04 pm

I'm just theorising unfortunately, although that has resulted in my having to actually provide proof of concept before (see the rescaling experiment thread - if you've got a spare hour ).

I did have a look at your experiment before and found it quite interesting.

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:04 pm

I don't see why it couldn't be done but then I've never worked with subentries before. There could easily be some requirement or limitation that I'm unaware of.

Well, I need to correct myself, as much as I know subentities can't be added, only restored or removed. Therefore, to simulate movement every time a new ship would be necessary.

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:04 pm

There are also visual effects to consider.

Imagine a ship with no actual wings but rather wings done as a visual effect. Would likely have the problem that lasers would pass straight through the wings but that needn't be a big problem; arguably that's exactly what a powerful laser should do in some instances and a small hole in a 'wing' in space might not count as significant damage.

For visual effects, I need to update myself again, I think I can recall that it was a major headache to use them for moving object. However, I would only use them for the process, after the desired position is reached we are back to a subentity.

Redspear wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:04 pm

Thinking is much easier than programming for me but when it 'can't be done' I find it's usually that it's impractical rather than impossible.

That's what I mentioned before, while certainly there is a way I can't imagine many situations where it would be practical.

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:33 pm

Well, I need to correct myself, as much as I know subentities can't be added, only restored or removed. Therefore, to simulate movement every time a new ship would be necessary.

Not necessarily. Again, I need to clarify my (theoretical) proposals...

I've been suggesting that all of the wing positions are defined as subentities from the start, defined within shipdata.plist.

In order to prevent that from looking ridiculous, a script can remove all but one of them by default. That might be upon launch or upon spawning for example.

When it comes to time for the subentity to 'move' it is simply removed prior to the subentity that simulates the next position being 'restored'. This could be done sequentially for each required subentity/'frame' of the animation.

Potential sticking point: would subentities sharing coordinates create an issue in the shipdata file, even if they were (likely) never displayed simultaneously?

There's the shipyard displays to consider as well but that's a much smaller issue (especially for wing positions, i.e. why not show them in a static model before you buy).

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:33 pm

For visual effects, I need to update myself again, I think I can recall that it was a major headache to use them for moving object.

I can well believe that...

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:33 pm

However, I would only use them for the process, after the desired position is reached we are back to a subentity.

Right, so it gives us options to use it where it may be helpful.

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:17 am

I could also recall some moving elements at a station, I think it was Thargoid.

<nods> I believe it was the TMA who wrote the code for Griff's subent missiles. It worked really well too: buzz a Cobra, see the missiles 'hanging' under it, engage the Cobra, and watch those missiles being toggled-off and heading straight for you. Sweet!

Cody wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:17 pm

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:17 am

I could also recall some moving elements at a station, I think it was Thargoid.

<nods> I believe it was the TMA who wrote the code for Griff's subent missiles. It worked really well too: buzz a Cobra, see the missiles 'hanging' under it, engage the Cobra, and watch those missiles being toggled-off and heading straight for you. Sweet!

Ahem! ... why call Thargoid "TMA"?

He's the Thargoid Military Attaché.

Cody wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:30 pm

He's the Thargoid Military Attaché.

Pretty creative, the S&D AI I mentioned at invasions is base on his concept. It's a combination between an AI and a script, later scanning for targets with a particular definition and reporting back to the AI.

montana05 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:08 pm

Pretty creative...

Aye! The TMA - one step ahead!

Yeah, I believe the butterfly.oxp with flapping wings was also from the TMA!

So, stellar serpent (not a ship) would fit in as "Variable geometry" then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxCY3HiLZ_E