Re: SW Economy
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:22 pm
I am not talking about SW economy! 
but the base game.
but the base game.Page 2 of 5
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:50 am
Use "SW Economy" together with "Market Cooldown" and "New Cargoes" which together give challenging diversity to trading.
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:43 pm
Market Cooldown is really nice OXP, based on very smart idea. I like it!
But Market Cooldown has critical drawback. It uses sum of distances to witchpoint and system sun to generate unique key for every system port. Works fine for static Ooniverse, but it will not work for (pseudo)dynamic Planetary Systems and for orbiters.
I'm using tweaked Market Cooldown, replacing original Spara's code
onto
Fading effect works directly only for main station, but having secondary station markets synchronized with main system market fading effect will affect all secondary ports too.
My simplified solution, however, has drawback too. It will not affect market until you visit system main station. Not too bad, I hope, if you have habit to visit main station just to save game progress.
But Market Cooldown has critical drawback. It uses sum of distances to witchpoint and system sun to generate unique key for every system port. Works fine for static Ooniverse, but it will not work for (pseudo)dynamic Planetary Systems and for orbiters.
I'm using tweaked Market Cooldown, replacing original Spara's code
Code: Select all
this.shipLaunchedFromStation = function(station) {
if (system.isInterstellarSpace) return;
var sMarket = station.market;
var marketObj = new Object();
marketObj.fadeCounter = 0.0;
for (var i in sMarket) {
marketObj[i] = sMarket[i].quantity;
}
//a uniqueish key for the station calculated from station to witchpoint buoy and sun distances
var idKey = Math.round(station.position.magnitude() + station.position.distanceTo(system.sun.position));
this.$storedMarkets[idKey] = marketObj;
}Code: Select all
this.shipLaunchedFromStation = function(station)
{
if (system.isInterstellarSpace || station != system.mainStation) return;
var sMarket = system.mainStation.market;
var marketObj = new Object();
marketObj.fadeCounter = 0.0;
for (var i in sMarket)
{
marketObj[i] = sMarket[i].quantity;
}
//ID key for the main station, matches system ID
var idKey = system.ID;
this.$storedMarkets[idKey] = marketObj;
}My simplified solution, however, has drawback too. It will not affect market until you visit system main station. Not too bad, I hope, if you have habit to visit main station just to save game progress.
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:55 am
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:33 pmCan I just ask: if there is a medical emergency announced on GNN or Snoopers - does this reflect in the medicine prices either where I am (less likely) or at the affected spots?
Sorry - only just worked it out - this would require Blooomberg Markets to pick up on the existence of medicine, oxygen & water as new commodities, no?
Would it need an SW version of Blooomberg, or could it be done just with modifying what is currently there?
I'll post this in the Blooomberg thread, too.
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:36 am
Looking at BlOomberg Markets. It uses two scripts: first to generate and display specific system events and second to change item price in selected system. Script changing price enough brief and clear to understand.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:55 amSorry - only just worked it out - this would require Blooomberg Markets to pick up on the existence of medicine, oxygen & water as new commodities, no?
Would it need an SW version of Blooomberg, or could it be done just with modifying what is currently there?
Unfortunately it will not work with new items. It redefines prices only for vanilla goods, emulating old market based on commodity.plist. No any (pseudo)random price fluctuation, just two fixed events for item: one to increase price to fixed new base value and another to decrease price to fixed new base value too.
I have no idea yet for best way to integrate new items with BlOomberg Markets. Sorry
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:06 pm
Two thoughts:
1)The price of medicines in low-tech agricultural systems is ludicrously low. They don't have the ability to manufacture them, so they have to import them. The low prices make no sense.
2)I'm unsure about how your economic classification of systems changes things. I'm still buying furs and computers (but now filling the empty space in my hold with machinery/wines etc as the quantities have changed). Yes, I have made money on textiles etc, but the furs and computers are still the staples when I can get them.
Vincentz started developing a different economic system - to my untutored eye mildly similar to yours. The thread is here and contains links to his icon font which is inside his fledgling .oxp.
https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17360
Sadly, I don't see any sign of a license in his works, and he last logged in 2 years ago.
1)The price of medicines in low-tech agricultural systems is ludicrously low. They don't have the ability to manufacture them, so they have to import them. The low prices make no sense.
2)I'm unsure about how your economic classification of systems changes things. I'm still buying furs and computers (but now filling the empty space in my hold with machinery/wines etc as the quantities have changed). Yes, I have made money on textiles etc, but the furs and computers are still the staples when I can get them.
Vincentz started developing a different economic system - to my untutored eye mildly similar to yours. The thread is here and contains links to his icon font which is inside his fledgling .oxp.
https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17360
Sadly, I don't see any sign of a license in his works, and he last logged in 2 years ago.
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:19 am
SW Economy in actual state is not dealing with any price changes besides basic price fine tuning. It changes mainly quantities of available trade goods.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:06 pm1)The price of medicines in low-tech agricultural systems is ludicrously low. They don't have the ability to manufacture them, so they have to import them. The low prices make no sense.
We have only economy price gradient in vanilla game. Computers are cheap in industrial systems and high-priced in agricultural. Furs are cheap in agricultural systems and high-priced in industrial. This is vanilla economy - we have no TL affecting price, only economy gradient.
It will be nice to add second TL gradient affecting price. Computers can be in high demand it high-tech agricultural worlds, machinery in low-tech agricultural. Medicine will be in high demand in low-tech world, raw materials in high-tech etc. This second gradient axis can be emulating using script, but it may cause new issues and requires careful testing. Now I'm using more safe conservative approach. Maybe I'll change mind and try to affect price in future updates.
Works as it was intended - not to make revolution in economy, just give opportunity to increase choice.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:06 pm2)I'm unsure about how your economic classification of systems changes things. I'm still buying furs and computers (but now filling the empty space in my hold with machinery/wines etc as the quantities have changed). Yes, I have made money on textiles etc, but the furs and computers are still the staples when I can get them.
Thank you for discussion!
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:13 am
More pondering!
Medicines would possibly be the one major export of Mainly agricultural/Mainly industrial economies! They have both the agriculture and the industry to produce complex medicines (if they have the requisite TL).
That of course presumes that the game code is capable of dealing with them in that way, rather than just bunging them in the middle of the gradient between the extreme agricultural/industrial systems.
This might also be true of luxuries!
Or maybe luxuries should be less dependant on the system's economy and be more dependant on random factors (walnut wood groves, local schools of craftsfrogs, high tech developers of Ooolite games, etc). Perhaps luxuries should only exist in Cim's New Cargoes oxp?
Medicines would possibly be the one major export of Mainly agricultural/Mainly industrial economies! They have both the agriculture and the industry to produce complex medicines (if they have the requisite TL).
That of course presumes that the game code is capable of dealing with them in that way, rather than just bunging them in the middle of the gradient between the extreme agricultural/industrial systems.
This might also be true of luxuries!
Or maybe luxuries should be less dependant on the system's economy and be more dependant on random factors (walnut wood groves, local schools of craftsfrogs, high tech developers of Ooolite games, etc). Perhaps luxuries should only exist in Cim's New Cargoes oxp?
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:46 pm
Sounds reasonable. It will explain success of systems with balanced economy. Not having enough cheap electronics & machinery to export as industrial systems and not having enough cheap agricultural goods you need some other goods to export to maintain economy.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:13 amMedicines would possibly be the one major export of Mainly agricultural/Mainly industrial economies! They have both the agriculture and the industry to produce complex medicines (if they have the requisite TL).
Or course it will be hard task to transform vanilla simple economy onto complex non-linear and dinamic economy. Too easy to ruin game balance.
And if it will be succcessful maybe it will be nice to realize in spin-off project on Oolite engine, not in canonical game.
But medicine and luxuries... sounds reasonable, but I need time to rethink pro and contra of such reform, OK?
Dependency of random factors will lead to less predictable pattern for gamer. Nice for generated unique contracts like in New Cargoes, not so nice for regular runs. Now luxury and medicine gives balanced pair of goods to trade in opposite directions of economy gradient. Removing luxury from main market will ruin this balance again.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:13 amThis might also be true of luxuries!
Or maybe luxuries should be less dependant on the system's economy and be more dependant on random factors (walnut wood groves, local schools of craftsfrogs, high tech developers of Ooolite games, etc). Perhaps luxuries should only exist in Cim's New Cargoes oxp?
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:33 pm
Of course! All I'm doing is thinking about what you have done!stranger wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:46 pmSounds reasonable. It will explain success of systems with balanced economy. Not having enough cheap electronics & machinery to export as industrial systems and not having enough cheap agricultural goods you need some other goods to export to maintain economy.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:13 amMedicines would possibly be the one major export of Mainly agricultural/Mainly industrial economies! They have both the agriculture and the industry to produce complex medicines (if they have the requisite TL).
Or course it will be hard task to transform vanilla simple economy onto complex non-linear and dinamic economy. Too easy to ruin game balance.
And if it will be succcessful maybe it will be nice to realize in spin-off project on Oolite engine, not in canonical game.
But medicine and luxuries... sounds reasonable, but I need time to rethink pro and contra of such reform, OK?
But don't gold/platinum/gems do this anyway? At least one of them is usually 10% cheaper than average at an agricultural, and can be sold for profit at an industrial. Admittedly luxuries & medicine are more reliable in terms of profit - but does that matter so much? One has to find a high TL agricultural anyway for the medicine.stranger wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:46 pmDependency of random factors will lead to less predictable pattern for gamer. Nice for generated unique contracts like in New Cargoes, not so nice for regular runs. Now luxury and medicine gives balanced pair of goods to trade in opposite directions of economy gradient. Removing luxury from main market will ruin this balance again.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:13 amThis might also be true of luxuries!
Or maybe luxuries should be less dependant on the system's economy and be more dependant on random factors (walnut wood groves, local schools of craftsfrogs, high tech developers of Ooolite games, etc). Perhaps luxuries should only exist in Cim's New Cargoes oxp?
With Famous Planets loaded, and looking at Galaxy 1:
TL16 1 industrial
TL15 1 industrial
TL14 4 industrial
TL13 5 industrial
TL12 20 industrial, 1 mainly industrial
TL11 16 industrial, 2 mainly agricultural
TL10 17 industrial, 4 mainly industrial, 1 agricultural
TL9 17 industrial, 10 mainly industrial, 4 mainly agricultural, 3 agricultural
TL8 6 industrial, 6 mainly industrial, 8 mainly agricultural, 9 agricultural
Only 12 agricultural systems in 256 in Galaxy have the TL to produce medicine!
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:11 pm
Is SW Economy compatible with Smugglers?
There are some notes at the bottom of the http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Smuggl ... Underworld page about coding new commodities for compatibility.
There are some notes at the bottom of the http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Smuggl ... Underworld page about coding new commodities for compatibility.
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:54 am
Sorry for delay.
I have no enough knowledge to answer you question. Seems it is necessary to adopt additional items to Smugglers as described in Smugglers page, but I hope SW Economy will not break game if you have Smugglers. I think Smugglers will just ignore these additional items until you'll adjust these items properly.
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:54 pm
I have now been running SW Economy since you brought it out.
It is super, thank you. It really adds to my game.
1) Alas, I don't quite see a three-way economy. Extreme Agricultural ... yes. Extreme Industrial ... yes. Mining ... no! The values for food/drink at the rock hermits are only 1-3% higher than those at the local orbital stations. Enough to pay for the run out there from the orbital, but no more than that. It remains much more profitable to bounce around between the Extreme Agricultural & Extreme Industrial two-way economy and trade in furs & computers. A lo-o-o-ong run out to another distant station will let me sell alcohol at a nice mark-up - but I often do better at a Deep Space Dredger if I bump into one en-route. And I still do better with my furs and computers.
I very much appreciate that such planets as Laenin now produce virtually nothing to export with a reasonable profit. Much more realistic, in my eyes.
2) Thinking laterally (![[Wikipedia]](/images/wikipediasmall.png)
Edward de Bono RIP), I wonder about the food, oxygen & water commodities. Presuming that recycling facilities exist, why would there be a market in these? Surely it would be cheaper to use the recycled products? And surely, just as my Cobra has recycling facilities (as detailed in the various manuals from the various games), so too the rock hermits, mining stations, other planet orbitals, Deep Space Dredgers etc would have them too?
Food: this is therefore presumably real food rather than the recycled pap I get on my ship. And hence your increase in price makes a lot of sense.
Liqueurs & wines: again, one can see sense here when one mooches about a western world supermarket and gazes at the awesome selection of wines, gins, whiskys, etc on display. See https://www.waitrose.com/ and look at the cellar pages for an example.
Water: umm! Sparkling water, maybe. Spa water, maybe. Holy water, maybe. But otherwise? Would there be much of a demand in a world of recycled water?
Oxygen: As above. Is there such a thing as Holy Oxygen? If one wanted to terraform a planet, would not one look to local sources which could be used?
[/quote]
3) Where could I download a copy of your Planet Land from?
It is super, thank you. It really adds to my game.
1) Alas, I don't quite see a three-way economy. Extreme Agricultural ... yes. Extreme Industrial ... yes. Mining ... no! The values for food/drink at the rock hermits are only 1-3% higher than those at the local orbital stations. Enough to pay for the run out there from the orbital, but no more than that. It remains much more profitable to bounce around between the Extreme Agricultural & Extreme Industrial two-way economy and trade in furs & computers. A lo-o-o-ong run out to another distant station will let me sell alcohol at a nice mark-up - but I often do better at a Deep Space Dredger if I bump into one en-route. And I still do better with my furs and computers.
I very much appreciate that such planets as Laenin now produce virtually nothing to export with a reasonable profit. Much more realistic, in my eyes.
2) Thinking laterally (
Edward de Bono RIP), I wonder about the food, oxygen & water commodities. Presuming that recycling facilities exist, why would there be a market in these? Surely it would be cheaper to use the recycled products? And surely, just as my Cobra has recycling facilities (as detailed in the various manuals from the various games), so too the rock hermits, mining stations, other planet orbitals, Deep Space Dredgers etc would have them too?Food: this is therefore presumably real food rather than the recycled pap I get on my ship. And hence your increase in price makes a lot of sense.
Liqueurs & wines: again, one can see sense here when one mooches about a western world supermarket and gazes at the awesome selection of wines, gins, whiskys, etc on display. See https://www.waitrose.com/ and look at the cellar pages for an example.
Water: umm! Sparkling water, maybe. Spa water, maybe. Holy water, maybe. But otherwise? Would there be much of a demand in a world of recycled water?
Oxygen: As above. Is there such a thing as Holy Oxygen? If one wanted to terraform a planet, would not one look to local sources which could be used?
[/quote]
3) Where could I download a copy of your Planet Land from?
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:52 pm
@Cholmondely
Thank you for kind reply, sir!
I need some time to refresh my memories. Too long period not playing Oolite
There is issue with PlanetLand - it contains graphics from another authors without clear permissions. So I feel it may be not acceptable to give link in this forum. Private message maybe?
Thank you for kind reply, sir!
I need some time to refresh my memories. Too long period not playing Oolite
There is issue with PlanetLand - it contains graphics from another authors without clear permissions. So I feel it may be not acceptable to give link in this forum. Private message maybe?
Re: SW Economy
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:02 pm
Hi stranger
17:16:56.213 [LogEvents] GlobalLog: exited from witchspace
17:16:56.214 [script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType] ReportJSError: ***** JavaScript exception (market_tweak.js 3.7): TypeError: system.mainStation is null
17:16:56.214 [script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType] ReportJSError: E:\Oolite/oolite.app/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.stranger.SW_Economy.oxz/Scripts/market_tweak.js, line 24.
This appeared once when jumping into a system where an asteroid storm had recently destroyed the main station.
17:16:56.213 [LogEvents] GlobalLog: exited from witchspace
17:16:56.214 [script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType] ReportJSError: ***** JavaScript exception (market_tweak.js 3.7): TypeError: system.mainStation is null
17:16:56.214 [script.javaScript.exception.unexpectedType] ReportJSError: E:\Oolite/oolite.app/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddOns/oolite.oxp.stranger.SW_Economy.oxz/Scripts/market_tweak.js, line 24.
This appeared once when jumping into a system where an asteroid storm had recently destroyed the main station.