Oolite Bulletins

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:53 am

Utterly useless at the software end, I'm afraid!

Just out of curiosity - which flight stick did you get?

I use Logitech exreme 3D pro. since It's my first flight stick I don't know is it best or not but i'm really enjoying it.

Hello, guys! I'm a newbie here. But I just wanted to ask:
Isn't it more interesting to have a more realistic experience?
NPC's without sound in open space is more than realistic.
Maybe you'll want some more features that would close you up to imagine this is real?
Some space junk that hits from outside, etc.?

hijong park wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:40 am

I use Logitech exreme 3D pro. since It's my first flight stick I don't know is it best or not but i'm really enjoying it.

I've been using one of those for years - for its price, it's a great stick.

TommyJ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:04 pm

Hello, guys! I'm a newbie here. But I just wanted to ask:
Isn't it more interesting to have a more realistic experience?
NPC's without sound in open space is more than realistic.
Maybe you'll want some more features that would close you up to imagine this is real?
Some space junk that hits from outside, etc.?

Welcome to our merry throng! We hope you enjoy your stay - not to mention zipping around the Ooniverse!

Surely what is wanted is one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Miei8UHiYg
OR one of the other items in the sidebar!

But they've not yet made one for our Cobra Mark III ...

It's a pleasure to receive such a greeting!
I hope to have a lot of fun in this community too. Could you please share the information, how close to reality do you think oolite is?
I am looking for something extra for myself. For example, with the ability to assemble missiles and ships from spare parts, or with the possibility of a failed launch. Although I would like to see something from the latest developments in small rockets. I understand that adding all the developments and capabilities directly to one simulator is a huge waste of time and resources. Therefore, I would like to supplement my experience with something else. I would greatly appreciate some hints)

Oolite is totally (and deliberately) unrealistic. Even leaving wormholes aside, the ships disobey all known models of physics. They have reactionless thrust: turn on the engine, and off you go: no fuel is consumed, no reaction mass is expended. And if you drive your ship in one direction indefinitely, you don't accelerate indefinitely: you reach a cruising speed and then you don't get any faster. Turn the engines off and you don't coast: you come to a dead stop. This allows for dogfights in space (where you can see lasers in the vacuum - again, in defiance of physics).

Here's what happened when David Braben made Frontier, the sequel to Elite:

The arcadey nature of the original Elite had completely changed because Braben had created Frontier with Newtonian physics. As a result, controlling your ship in the middle of a frenzied dogfight could make for an incredibly frustrating experience. Braben is convinced, however, that he made the right decision; “It was less fun,” he admits, but the physics did make for a far more realistic experience.

—"The History of Elite", Retro Gamer 47

Why a professional games designer should think that making any game "less fun" is "the right decision", I don't know. I do know that in Frontier, ship combat was either frustrating or boring. It was never fun.

Why a professional games designer should think that making any game "less fun" is "the right decision", I don't know.

<chortles> They seem to be making football less fun, what with VAR and stupid handball/offside rules.

Re Frontier (upon the launch of ED):

David Braben wrote:

I loved the richness of the galaxy, but with the benefit of hindsight I think the way the ships flew detracted from the joyous immediacy of those in “Elite”

Cody wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:21 pm

Re Frontier (upon the launch of ED):

David Braben wrote:

I loved the richness of the galaxy, but with the benefit of hindsight I think the way the ships flew detracted from the joyous immediacy of those in “Elite”

Well, at least he's learning …

Disembodied wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:23 am

Oolite is totally (and deliberately) unrealistic. Even leaving wormholes aside, the ships disobey all known models of physics. They have reactionless thrust: turn on the engine, and off you go: no fuel is consumed, no reaction mass is expended. And if you drive your ship in one direction indefinitely, you don't accelerate indefinitely: you reach a cruising speed and then you don't get any faster. Turn the engines off and you don't coast: you come to a dead stop. This allows for dogfights in space (where you can see lasers in the vacuum - again, in defiance of physics).

Not totally
You can see some action of Newtonian laws in Oolite.
Break asteroid onto boulders and splinters. Or just dump cargo canister having some speed. Splinters, cargo canisters and wrecks go to infinite motion with constant velocity. First Newton's law.
Setting engine thrust to zero is NOT equal to cut off engine. Your ship remains in state of "active mass". Dynamic of ship as active mass contradicts First Newton's law, agree. But acceleration/deceleration rate in Oolite is quite Newtonian! Try to experiment with thrust parameter in shipdata.plist. Reducing thrust by factor 2 you'll get multiplier 2 for acceleration/deceleration time and 4 for distance. It is very noticeable in case of Torus drive deceleration on mass lock. Reducing your Cobra Mk III thrust by factor two you'll increase deceleration distance from approx half of scanner range to 2 scanner ranges. Acceleration/deceleration time is in inverse proportion to thrust, distance - inverse proportions of thrust in power 2. Second Newton's law.
Action of Third Newton's law is hard to demonstrate in clear test situation. But colliding with another ship you'll get quite noticeable impetus, depending of mass ratio of colliding ship.

stranger wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:07 am

You can see some action of Newtonian laws in Oolite.
Break asteroid onto boulders and splinters. Or just dump cargo canister having some speed. Splinters, cargo canisters and wrecks go to infinite motion with constant velocity. First Newton's law.

Yes, agreed - anything without an engine has momentum, and obeys Newtonian laws of motion.

stranger wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:07 am

But acceleration/deceleration rate in Oolite is quite Newtonian!

Certainly, you can't go from zero to full speed instantaneously: you have to speed up and slow down. But you can accelerate and decelerate without expending any reaction mass. In my head, the ship doesn't actually move at all: it grabs the fabric of spacetime and pulls it through the engine. When it squirts out the back, you can see the glow of Cherenkov radiation caused by virtual particles briefly moving faster than light in the accelerated space …

stranger wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:07 am

But colliding with another ship you'll get quite noticeable impetus, depending of mass ratio of colliding ship.

Indeed - you can find yourself moving backwards!

Disembodied wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:37 am

In my head, the ship doesn't actually move at all: it grabs the fabric of spacetime and pulls it through the engine. When it squirts out the back, you can see the glow of Cherenkov radiation caused by virtual particles briefly moving faster than light in the accelerated space …

Sounds unpleasantly like being drunk!

I have no idea how to remove this unintended duplicate message

Disembodied wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:37 am

But you can accelerate and decelerate without expending any reaction mass. In my head, the ship doesn't actually move at all: it grabs the fabric of spacetime and pulls it through the engine.

Exact!
This is lore consistent explanation of ship movement in Oolite without ejecting reaction mass. Phenomenon of movement with constant speed still remains unexplained. Seems this fabric of spacetime is framed to nearest massive celestial body.

Yes. Fun is good. But I didn't say that Oolite should be realistic. It's just great for me when real things and game fun combine. So that everyone can find what they like at this very moment.
P.S. Some game developers then become software developers for real rockets, satellites, moon rovers, etc.
We don't know what kind of ambition they have in their heads. (This is the question of why developers should spend their time adding realism or 'less fun')