Oolite Bulletins

gsagostinho wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:26 pm

I would like to take the default Oolite paint job into mix. Is it enough to just add your normal map to it or does it require some texture/value tweaking to make it fit in with your paint jobs?

I believe that basically it's only adding the normal map.

And in the long rung, would it make sense to create a Paint Shop oxp, to which individual texture OXPs would register their textures and which would pool those textures and handle all texture switching? That way other texture artists could also join in and the player could mix and match just like they do with Additional Planets oxp.

I'll see what I can up with . Personality persistence was easy, btw, consider it done.

That would be a great approach! Would something like this handle the fact that some liveries might use different normal/emission maps, other might use an effect map while another one doesn't, different shineness and other parameters, etc.?

Definitely with as many different parameters as needed.

spara wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:04 pm

That would be a great approach! Would something like this handle the fact that some liveries might use different normal/emission maps, other might use an effect map while another one doesn't, different shineness and other parameters, etc.?

Definitely with as many different parameters as needed.

That's really great, spara. If you would be able to come up with such OXP, I would be more than happy to convert all these texture packs of mine for it. I will already start taking a look at my Cobra and Fer-de-Lance texture packs to see if it would be easy to use the default ship models.

Please let me know if I can be of any help.

gsagostinho wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:14 pm

spara wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:04 pm

That would be a great approach! Would something like this handle the fact that some liveries might use different normal/emission maps, other might use an effect map while another one doesn't, different shineness and other parameters, etc.?

Definitely with as many different parameters as needed.

That's really great, spara. If you would be able to come up with such OXP, I would be more than happy to convert all these texture packs of mine for it. I will already start taking a look at my Cobra and Fer-de-Lance texture packs to see if it would be easy to use the default ship models.

Please let me know if I can be of any help.

Ok. This will take a little time to get it right. And I'm going to be on the road for a couple of days and not doing this. But if all goes well, I'll have something to test next week.

No rush, spara. Once you have something just let me know, but please take your time. And many thanks for taking a look at this!

@spara just a small update on the situation, I have checked the textures of the default Cobra Mk III and Fer-de-Lance and they differ substantially from what I did (the latter is completely different). So this means that only the Asp and the Python texture packs can use any script you may came up with.

gsagostinho wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:20 pm

@spara just a small update on the situation, I have checked the textures of the default Cobra Mk III and Fer-de-Lance and they differ substantially from what I did (the latter is completely different). So this means that only the Asp and the Python texture packs can use any script you may came up with.

That's a shame . You used something else than core textures as base then?

spara wrote:

That's a shame . You used something else than core textures as base then?

Yes, unfortunately I did. For the Cobra, I used Z GrOovy's texture pack as source, as I used it to learn how the architecture of ships work. For the Fer-de-Lance, I used Griff's OXP. What confused me is that, as far as I am aware, the default ships were also created by Griff, but later I learned that those were not the same as the OXPs. The Cobra does not differs by much so perhaps I could try to convert those textures in the future (I would have to see how much trouble that would be), but the Fer-de-Lance has a completely different texture layout.

gsagostinho wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:30 pm

spara wrote:

That's a shame . You used something else than core textures as base then?

Yes, unfortunately I did. For the Cobra, I used Z GrOovy's texture pack as source, as I used it to learn how the architecture of ships work. For the Fer-de-Lance, I used Griff's OXP. What confused me is that, as far as I am aware, the default ships were also created by Griff, but later I learned that those were not the same as the OXPs. The Cobra does not differs by much so perhaps I could try to convert those textures in the future (I would have to see how much trouble that would be), but the Fer-de-Lance has a completely different texture layout.

Yep. You're correct. Cobra texture would probably work with the core model, but Ferdie does not. I think Griff has released more than one Ferdie over the years and the one used is different from the core one.

I still find the overall core model paint over project quite interesting, so I think I'll try to finish something. In the old days, when the textures of the ships where simple and plain in sight, it was easy to start modifying them. Now that they are complex and semi transparent, it's a bit intimidating to modify them. Maybe this project could bring some of that old "easy to start painting textures" feel back. Maybe.

I still find the overall core model paint over project quite interesting, so I think I'll try to finish something. In the old days, when the textures of the ships where simple and plain in sight, it was easy to start modifying them. Now that they are complex and semi transparent, it's a bit intimidating to modify them. Maybe this project could bring some of that old "easy to start painting textures" feel back. Maybe.

I think this is a really great idea, and if this project move forwards then I would be happy to recreate even the Fer-de-Lance textures. When I started messing around with Oolite textures, the transparency was quite intimidating indeed, even though I have been working on textures for years (for FlightGear, for instance). Since I am using only three textures (regular diffuse, emission map and normal map), I decided to keep them separated exactly because it becomes trivial to modify them and I couldn't see any performance hit by doing that. Also, as far as I know, having the emission map only in the alpha channel limits you on the colours it can have, while an emission map in RGB gives you all the flexibility in the world.

So keep me updated on how this goes, but no rush.

I take it then that you aren't having a colormap as well, so that each design can have random color applied, like Griff ships do? That would be really cool to have if these can be made into a pool that doesn't offset the spawn balance.

My current working solution, is to define materials entry for each variant, pool those and switch materials on spawn. So, if it can be done with a materials entry, then it can be pooled with the current dev version.

Keeper wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:11 pm

I take it then that you aren't having a colormap as well, so that each design can have random color applied, like Griff ships do? That would be really cool to have if these can be made into a pool that doesn't offset the spawn balance.

No, I am not using a colormap. Of course using it can work really well (just look at Griff's unbelievable work), but I personally prefer to "hardcode" everything in the diffuse texture, it makes my life much easier and allows more fine control of the result (at least with my workflow). So I am personally not really inclined to using those.

Ok. Got the thing to work, but don't really know if it's of any use . I've got a base oxp, that pools the textures and a texture asp oxp that defines materials for different asps. On spawn, every asp gets a new materials entry based on their personality. But, the thing that puts me down, is that there are parts in the game that use models without spawning them (meaning not triggering shipsSpawned event). Most notably mission screens. And that I can't work around.

So, to make this idea work, it would require a core change on some kind. And since I don't know a thing about core, I have no idea, if it's a biggie or trivial.

spara wrote:

On spawn, every asp gets a new materials entry based on their personality. But, the thing that puts me down, is that there are parts in the game that use models without spawning them (meaning not triggering shipsSpawned event). Most notably mission screens. And that I can't work around.

Oh, that's such a pity... so is this also the case in the F4 screens, for instance the buy/sell shipyard, or the Station Traffic Control interface (when using the Station Dock Control OXP)? That would be quite a deal breaker for me as well

So, to make this idea work, it would require a core change on some kind. And since I don't know a thing about core, I have no idea, if it's a biggie or trivial.

Perhaps we could ask about it to some of the devs, maybe another_commander could give his 5 cents.

Another option would be to keep things as they are, but to make the new paints (which effectively are new ships) less likely to appear as NPCs, as to keep the balance of the game. Would you have some suggestion on what values I should use for the roles on these TExture Packs of mine?

gsagostinho wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:02 pm

spara wrote:

On spawn, every asp gets a new materials entry based on their personality. But, the thing that puts me down, is that there are parts in the game that use models without spawning them (meaning not triggering shipsSpawned event). Most notably mission screens. And that I can't work around.

Oh, that's such a pity... so is this also the case in the F4 screens, for instance the buy/sell shipyard, or the Station Traffic Control interface (when using the Station Dock Control OXP)? That would be quite a deal breaker for me as well

Exactly those. Also Random Hits for example.

So, to make this idea work, it would require a core change on some kind. And since I don't know a thing about core, I have no idea, if it's a biggie or trivial.

Perhaps we could ask about it to some of the devs, maybe another_commander could give his 5 cents.

I made a feature request, so we'll see. If it's a big change, it's not really worth it, but maybe it's just a little change and we can carry on with this one .

Another option would be to keep things as they are, but to make the new paints (which effectively are new ships) less likely to appear as NPCs, as to keep the balance of the game. Would you have some suggestion on what values I should use for the roles on these TExture Packs of mine?

The problem of course is that you want to actually see those nice looking ships . You can try to predict the effect with this table:  Oolite Ship Role Weights.