Oolite Bulletins

A somewhat related issue, which dumping data to a log-like file would make relatively simple, is this:
I dual-boot my lappy into Linux or Windows as appropriate, and have a "transfer" folder accessible to both. Unsurprisingly, I keep my oolite-saves folder in there, accessible from the light side and the dark side (I've got to rename the systems now! Should have thought of that ages ago.). But the dark side and the light side get discoordinated over which OXPs are added in which.
I know that I should be able to sort it out by dint of examining the "latest.log" in each side, comparing notes and ... it's a game, is it worth the effort?
It is a common enough comment on the forum to ask people which OXPs they've got installed. There then follows an interchange about how to locate the latest.log, then how to parse it ... very repetitive.
Wouldn't a function in the Expansion manager to dump the list of OXPs into a text file in (the most-recent save-game location? somewhere), with a user manageable name be useful in the general case, as well as my specific circumstance? I can sort myself out, but the newbie to the game may well get dispirited and go back to shooting up the Phobos Base instead.

Worth adding to the "to do" list?

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:01 pm

[...]as well as my specific circumstance?[...]

Alternatively, if you could define the OXZ/OXP directory, then you could have it in your transfer as well

maik wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:01 pm

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:01 pm

[...]as well as my specific circumstance?[...]

Alternatively, if you could define the OXZ/OXP directory, then you could have it in your transfer as well

I'm not sure - is that possible? I got the impression that it wasn't, but I admit to RTFMing as far as necessary to get an acceptable system, then stopping. In other systems, I've got such things working by relative references (../../relative/path/to/wherever) but it always turns out fragile.
Wouldn't the two different GNUstep setups clash at some point? Or does the system work by reading the actual contents of the ~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddons, or by reading a database or listing somewhere?

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:24 pm

maik wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:01 pm

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:01 pm

[...]as well as my specific circumstance?[...]

Alternatively, if you could define the OXZ/OXP directory, then you could have it in your transfer as well

I'm not sure - is that possible? I got the impression that it wasn't, but I admit to RTFMing as far as necessary to get an acceptable system, then stopping. In other systems, I've got such things working by relative references (../../relative/path/to/wherever) but it always turns out fragile.
Wouldn't the two different GNUstep setups clash at some point? Or does the system work by reading the actual contents of the ~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddons, or by reading a database or listing somewhere?

I wish I knew, I am wondering myself. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable comes along...

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:24 pm

maik wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:01 pm

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:01 pm

[...]as well as my specific circumstance?[...]

Alternatively, if you could define the OXZ/OXP directory, then you could have it in your transfer as well

I'm not sure - is that possible? I got the impression that it wasn't, but I admit to RTFMing as far as necessary to get an acceptable system, then stopping. In other systems, I've got such things working by relative references (../../relative/path/to/wherever) but it always turns out fragile.
Wouldn't the two different GNUstep setups clash at some point? Or does the system work by reading the actual contents of the ~/GNUstep/Library/ApplicationSupport/Oolite/ManagedAddons, or by reading a database or listing somewhere?

That was actually my first thought when reading your problem statement: Why not have the addons directory in transfer as well?
I am not sure what it would take on Windows side, but for Linux you can definitely use a symlink from where oolite would expect the files to where you have them.

Regarding the dump of extensions: I'd go even further. I do not want having to figure out such stuff myself. So my proposal would be to
- add a list of extensions to every savegame (all available extensions or all used extensions).
- upong load of a savegame, either stop loading with an error, or load with a warning if required extensions are not installed
- maybe even offer to download missing extensions via the addon manager

This would allow sharing/reusing savegames also amongst users a lot easier than before.

hiran wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:37 am

- add a list of extensions to every savegame (all available extensions or all used extensions).

Well, it's there in the details, but you certainly need to look, hard, to work it out.
I wonder what order things go into (and come out of) the save file.

hiran wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:37 am

- upong load of a savegame, either stop loading with an error, or load with a warning if required extensions are not installed
- maybe even offer to download missing extensions via the addon manager

Well, give the user an option to load the missing extension, or continue, but at least aware of the missing part.

hiran wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:37 am

This would allow sharing/reusing savegames also amongst users a lot easier than before.

Just how much sharing of save-games goes on between people? I effectively share them between different user accounts on my own systems, but I doubt that's normal. I suspect there is a "user poll" question in there.

Since I don't actually do "online games" - it's not MOOCs, is it MOOD&Ds or something like that? MMPORGs ? - do they do much save-game sharing? How do they handle different configurations of "mods" between users (I think that's what DOOM-a-likes called extensions). They have (some of them, reportedly, systems for exchanging stuff between users, which I guess would be like partial save-games?

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:01 pm

Just how much sharing of save-games goes on between people?

You'd have to prise my save-game out of my cold, dead, hands!

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:01 pm

Well, it's there in the details, but you certainly need to look, hard, to work it out.
I wonder what order things go into (and come out of) the save file.

I just checked one of my savegames and could not find reference to the ~140 OXPs I have installed. So where did you see that?

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:01 pm

Well, give the user an option to load the missing extension, or continue, but at least aware of the missing part.

That would be constructive and gentle enough.

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:01 pm

hiran wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:37 am

This would allow sharing/reusing savegames also amongst users a lot easier than before.

Just how much sharing of save-games goes on between people? I effectively share them between different user accounts on my own systems, but I doubt that's normal. I suspect there is a "user poll" question in there.

You may be right this is unusual. I was more thinking of sharing a savegame with a developer to ease troubleshooting.

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:01 pm

Since I don't actually do "online games" - it's not MOOCs, is it MOOD&Ds or something like that? MMPORGs ? - do they do much save-game sharing? How do they handle different configurations of "mods" between users (I think that's what DOOM-a-likes called extensions). They have (some of them, reportedly, systems for exchanging stuff between users, which I guess would be like partial save-games?

Too many abbreviations for me to follow...

hiran wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:40 pm

I just checked one of my savegames and could not find reference to the ~140 OXPs I have installed. So where did you see that?

I might be getting save-games and latest.log confused. I definitely remember searching through a long list of OXPs on occasion.

hiran wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:40 pm

You may be right this is unusual. I was more thinking of sharing a savegame with a developer to ease troubleshooting.

Well, yes, that would be useful. In which case having (optional) user interaction might be useful for the developers.

RockDoctor wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:51 pm

hiran wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:40 pm

You may be right this is unusual. I was more thinking of sharing a savegame with a developer to ease troubleshooting.

Well, yes, that would be useful. In which case having (optional) user interaction might be useful for the developers.

Absolutely. It should be possible to record the events (which would be user input plus other information, e.g. the randseed so random numbers used for enemy generation can be replayed as well). This combination could not only be used for debugging purposes, but also for automated testing, demo cases or video rendering.

hiran wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:12 pm

Absolutely. It should be possible to record the events (which would be user input plus other information, e.g. the randseed so random numbers used for enemy generation can be replayed as well). This combination could not only be used for debugging purposes, but also for automated testing, demo cases or video rendering.

Is there a thread for "save-game contents" in the developer's sandbox?