Oolite Bulletins

phkb wrote:

Layne wrote:

For this kind of an oxp to really be interesting, something on the order of 'New Cargoes' is needed as well, where contraband can be different from system to system. That Communist system? Luxury goods are illegal. That Feudal system bans computers as being unholy. The monks who run that Multi-government system have declared a prohibition on wine and liquors. A Dictatorship has been under a food-import embargo from GalCop to pressure them politically.

In this system, there wouldn't be a need for specific smuggling contracts, or a smuggling compartment, but for a reassessment of existing cargoes.

I'm intrigued by this: would you perhaps put some extra description on the F7 screen to make it clear what is considered illegal in that system? And then add a boost to the commodity prices of those goods so smuggling is worthwhile. So, a communist "mainly ag" system, where the price for computers would normally be kind of average, would instead have a 150 per ton price. But to get to the station and get those prices, there will be extra customs police vessels who could, if they get close enough to the player, flag the cargo as contraband and have it confiscated on docking. That flagging would only carry weight in the current system, so the player could then decide to jump out, missing out on the sweet prices but keeping their cargo.

I'm liking this, as it means there is no need for another interface screen, or even more equipment. Maybe a cargo scanner disruptor to make it harder for the customs vessels to scan your cargo.

Do cargo scanners exist? I'm rather leaning towards combining this with your previous idea for false compartments and secret deals. What you're talking about is more along the idea of blockade running. Or possibly smuggling in the old Cornish sense, slipping past the revenuers to land a cargo. These might also be fun as activities. Black markets, secret deals, bribes, fast ships and hidden holds, these are all part of the 'art' and could be used for an /overall/ smuggling oxp that takes the entire thing into account. Bribe a cargo master to provide a fake manifest-- rig a dummy cargo canister to display the wrong contents or pop a sample from a false top while the rest of it is filled with something else-- a corrupt policeman hints he'd take a bribe or take a cut of the goods-- your ship has a Priest Hole where there ought to be a cooling vent-- your contact gives you a tip to get at the 'Special Goods Market'.

Incidentally, there's also the long-neglected 'Free Trade Zone' OXP, which supposedly provides a shady, less-than-legal market for just about anything. I use it to add some variety to my Multi-Gov systems.

The methods used in a smuggling oxp could be varied and numerous and creative; I was more talking about the motivation and the in-universe framework to make such an activity really fun for the player.

Bumping to say I'd really like to see this OXP come to pass..

Me too. I might move it to the top of my todo list!

I just wanted to clarify some expectations for this OXP before I really get stuck in. Please correct me if I've got anything wrong or missed anything out.

At the moment I can see three major components:

Part 1: Smuggling contracts, utilitising a "Smugglers Hold". These will be similar in appearance to parcel or cargo contracts, but will only take up 1 or 2 tons of the smugglers hold. These will be specific contracts with a specific pay.

The smuggler's hold will have a "quality" rating, based initially on the tech level of the planet you purchase it from. High quality means it will be less likely for authorities to discover it. Over time the quality rating of the hold will degrade (components aging and improved scanners) so it will be necessary for the player to upgrade the hold at different points in time (kind of like the maintenance overhaul). (Another idea is to have the quality related to the size of the hold - you can purchase different sized holds, but the larger the size the higher the chance of discovery. Smaller holds means less chance of discovery, but you can't carry as many contracts).

To add some flavour to the contracts, so they aren't just a repeat of the parcel contracts, will be the ability to negotiate the price. The contract might be to a rather dangerous location, and you might want to up the price from the initial offer. The owner of the contract will have a maximum cost they are willing to pay - offer too much and the contract will be withdrawn, or perhaps they will offer you less than the original. The maximum the owner might be willing to pay will be based somewhat on your experience in delivering smuggled goods. If you have a good rep, they will be willing of offer more.

Part 2: Broadening the definition of "Illegal goods" to be more than slaves, firearms and narcotics. This will play into part 1 in some ways. So, some planets may put a ban on luxuries. Planets that have issues with disease might welcome narcotics (of the medical type). Planets with civil war issues might ban weapons, while other planets don't mind them.

I'm going to need some help here in coming up with different reasons why planets might ban a certain cargo type. It would be good to have 4 or 5 reasons (or even more!) for each government type to keep things from being too repetitive.

Part 3: Blockade running. Trade embargoes may be placed on some planets by GalCop to bring them back into line (or for other reasons). This may mean some or all cargo types are banned, but if you can slip your ship through the net, better than average prices are available. A "Trade Embargoes" interface item will list all current trade embargoes in place in the current galaxy, along with the number of days left until it expires.

Would an embargo be on all trade or just one type? If it's just of a specific type, players will be able to purchase some form of manifest relabeling, so their illegal cargo of "computers" scans as "food". The quality of this relabeling will be based on the tech level of the planet it is done at (this could also be an inverse thing, where the relabeling is better done at a low-tech Anarchy - open to opinions here). This could mean players purchase (say) machinery cheaply at one planet, go to a high tech world to have the manifest altered, then head to the embargoed planet where machinery is declared illegal, remove the relabeling and reap the profits. If you sell the "food" before removing the relabelling, back luck! The guy who bought the food just got a bonus.

I imagine there will be a flotilla of police vessels at the witchpoint of an embargoed planet who will scan incoming ships for the illegal goods and fire on any ships that carry them.

I'm not sure I've worked out how to implement all this yet - this is early days of planning. I might do a few proof of concept OXP's to make sure things are heading in the right direction.

Anyway, please comment if you have any thoughts about any of this.

phkb wrote:

Part 2: Broadening the definition of "Illegal goods" to be more than slaves, firearms and narcotics. This will play into part 1 in some ways. So, some planets may put a ban on luxuries. Planets that have issues with disease might welcome narcotics (of the medical type). Planets with civil war issues might ban weapons, while other planets don't mind them.

I'm going to need some help here in coming up with different reasons why planets might ban a certain cargo type. It would be good to have 4 or 5 reasons (or even more!) for each government type to keep things from being too repetitive.

The general outlines sound very promising, though I'd also add that the shadier deals may be more interesting to start on out-of-the-way stations, rather than just the Main Stations.

As I was one of the folk who talked about adding more variety to illegal goods based on different systems, I'll be happy to pitch in and come up with a number of different scenarios as to why certain goods are illegal where, and will message you some possible ideas in the coming weeks. Hopefully others will toss ideas into the hat as well.

Looking for ideas and opinions here: When a trade good is declared illegal in a particular system, what should happen if the player (or even an NPC) turns up with a cargo hold full of said product? Here are some options to consider, but these are by no means exhaustive or even desirable - I'm just trying to work out what would be fun. Think of this as a brainstorming session. Anyway....

(1) Player arrives at witchpoint to find a flotilla of police "customs" ships who are scanning all incoming ships and demanding that any contraband is ejected, whereupon they destroy them (the cargo). Ships that flee will be fired upon. Getting scanned with contraband will result in a lift to the players legal level.

If there are a lot of vessels at the witchpoint this may mean that all the police vessels are occupied and some ships might be able to slip past. Following a group through a wormhole could be extremely useful.

(2) Player arrives at witchpoint to find...nothing! Then, on the way to the station they might find police "customs" ships that scan them and demand that any contraband is ejected, whereupon they destroy the cargo. Getting scanned with contraband will result in a lift to the players legal level.

There would be a lag between a police vessel coming into range and the players ship being scanned. That might give the player a chance to hide (ie cloak) or run away before they are scanned.

(3) Player arrives at witchpoint to find nothing, and no police ships interfere with them on the trip to the main station. When they dock their contraband cargo is confiscated and they get a lift to their legal level. Thus, to sell their contraband they will need to either (a) get the contraband "relabeled" before they arrive, or (b) have the cargo in the Smuggler's Hold or (c) sell their cargo at a secondary station (rock hermit, trade outpost, space bar, con store, Free Trade Zone etc), or (d) something else?.

(4) All the above! There might be police scanning vessels at the witchpoint, there might be police scanning vessels on the space lane, or there might be none. Regardless, point 3 still comes into play.

(5) Other ideas. Perhaps making use of waypoints, and dropping smuggled cargo at a particular point for 3rd parties to collect (that would be a pre-arranged thing as part of a contract, I think). You'd have to work out a way to dump cargo so it has no velocity (an extra piece of equipment might be necessary). Perhaps the handover takes place between two ships in space - go to a prearranged spot where a cargo vessel is waiting, then dump cargo so it can be scooped by the other ship (again, part of a contract). Police might show up and spoil things, so keep your eyes peeled.

Chip in with your thoughts. The idea here is to make the process of smuggling goods exciting, a bit unpredictable and fun.

Another thought, kind of on the flip side of smuggling - get contracts from the main station to patrol the space lane and scan ships for contraband, then demand they eject cargo or be fired on. Kind of a whole new role...oh wait, maybe I should finish the smuggling side of things first, eh?

There is also the possibility that Police and Customs are different fish. Customs fly around a bit like contract assassins, with no markings, and scan for contraband. The player doesn't necessarily know they are customs and may try to flee because they feel unsafe, but if a scan is successful, the data is sent to the main station and the main station broadcast a message to the player (when they get to the Aegis) suggesting they have illegal cargo regardless of whether it's pre-sold - Legal Status changes etc. The player can elect to take out the unmarked ships (with all the normal restrictions) before a transmission can take place - but what if they are just innocent travellers?!

Concerning the negociation part : I propose that your change in reputation would be proportional to the difference between the customer ideal price, and the final price negociated. Ie, charge too much, you'll have the contract, but your reputation will take a hit ; or, charge very little, and your reputation will skyrocket.

phkb wrote:

the handover takes place between two ships in space - go to a prearranged spot where a cargo vessel is waiting, then dump cargo so it can be scooped by the other ship

Another way: dump the cargo at a far place, keep the waypoint, then seek and contact traders via BoradCastComms, tell about what you "found". If the ship decide to pay if your story is true then lead to the pods. After the other ship scooped them you will receive the payment.
More simple if you try to sell directly from your cargo hold but more risky, maybe the other ship is hunting for smugglers.

phkb wrote:

I'm going to need some help here in coming up with different reasons why planets might ban a certain cargo type. It would be good to have 4 or 5 reasons (or even more!) for each government type to keep things from being too repetitive.

Maybe it could be useful / more powerful / more evolvable to have a resources oxp with the reasons / excuses / etc.
I think of a resources oxp to which other oxps might subscribe to propose new reasons / excuses to provide flavour.
For example, within the BankMonks Oxp (sorry, forgot the right name) : "This planet has made a religious contract with the Monks. As such, money is encouraged, and GOLD trading is BANNED. Offenders will be bathed in liquid gold."

Blockades... First, I totally like the idea.

Seems to me, and I may miss something, that blockades are generally done to isolate a country from all commerce (Cuba, USSR, North Korea, etc. (Common point being they all finish in -a... ->[] )) through army and treaties.
I mean, blockade by an external player never happens on a single product.

So, they must be in a war context. Either a hot war (temporary, the blockader might be temporarily powerful but not always the regional power), or a cold war (long scale time, the blockader has to be a regional power on a long scale time).

I think this has the potential to become the "Interstellar Wars OXP". Managing the wars, plugging blockades on these, missions, other oxps, etc.

SteveKing wrote:

There is also the possibility that Police and Customs are different fish.

Yup. And you have two places where customs work: at the fronteers, and generally inside the territory (we call them in french "flying customs" ).

SteveKing wrote:

There is also the possibility that Police and Customs are different fish.

I was certainly hoping to make the customs vessel, well, err, custom! Possibly based on the viper but maybe with a different paint job, and showing up on the scanner in a different colour.

Day wrote:

blockades are generally done to isolate a country from all commerce

Yeah, true, and I may try to incorporate both aspects: limits on a single commodity, and limits on all. Feel free to chip in any potential scenarios in each category! The more scenarios, the greater the galactic colour!

Some more thoughts:

I'm considering making two levels of illegal goods:
Level 1 is when the planet itself declares the product illegal, for whatever reasons we can come up with. For Level 1 there are no patrolling customs vessels, just the fact that if the goods are visible when you dock they are confiscated and your legal state will go up. The Smuggling hold is your friend here.

Level 1 illegal goods will (probably) remain in effect for a long period of time (months of game time).

Level 2 is when GalCop announces a trade embargo on a planet, to bring them back to the negotiation table or whatever, at which point all goods are illegal, and ships that arrive at the witchpoint have to leave, or eject all their cargo if they want to reach the main station. This is where the clocking device and/or smuggling hold will help. If you can get past the witchpoint blockade (which might be a combination of small and large vessels - maybe navy ones even), and have any visible goods when you dock with the station they will be removed and your legal state will go up. Again, the smugglers hold could help here. If you can get to the station with goods, then the prices will be amazing.

Level 2 blockades will only be in effect for a short period of time (weeks of game time).

More about the smuggling hold:
I was thinking about ways of making the hold's effectiveness variable, and adding a "phase" property to it. The player can then manually set the phase to a value (say, between 100 and 999). Each government type and techlevel will have equipment that is susceptible to a certain phase - if your hold is set to with +/- 5 points of their phase point, you will have an almost 100% chance that your smugglers hold won't be looked into. The further away from their phase point, the greater the chance, blowing out to a 60% chance the hold won't be looked into, so still in the player's favour but not guaranteed.

Then, I need to work out a way to communicate to the player what the best phase is for different government/techlevels. Some sort of smuggling underground chatter system (handwave-handwave), maybe via email - suggestion welcome!

The player will also be able to set the visible property of the smuggler's hold. What I mean is, the player can set a property that will make the hold scan as (say) food, or computers, or even empty. The player will need to be careful to set this correctly before entering a system, because if their hold says "food", and food is illegal, the contents of the hold will be discovered and confiscated, and the property can only be set when docked, not in-flight.

I'm trying to move away from the standard money-sink method of just buying upgrades for the smuggling hold. I think this method outlined above gives it the right feel, but let me know what you think.