Split: Assassins

[Disembodied]

A solution could be that, If some of the Pirates also had an assassin role as well, then they would attack couriers. This would be like someone hiring a local thug to stop the delivery of those incendiary Zero-G Cricket videos. A real assassin is for when I'm carrying sensitive materials.

I think this is a good idea, myself: most "assassins" would just be local muscle. Getting an actual contract killer (or several) set on you should be a rare event, and something you've earned (perhaps linked to taking out some named personality?).

On the parcels contracts side, it might be worth having a few more short-distance, low-paying jobs on offer for beginners, just as a way of making an extra C*30 or C*40. Perhaps, too, there could be some low-volume bulk haulage available - someone needs a small number of TCs (1-5, say) of furniture shipped from A to B. If the base price was something like C*15 per canister per jump, that might be an attractive deal: it's lower than the top profit margins available, but not every jump is going to be from Rich Industrial to Poor Agricultural - and some of the payment might be up-front. The cargo would have to be unique, rather than generic (i.e. the player couldn't sell it en route, and then buy replacements), and there could be various penalties (including financial ones) for failure, and for partial delivery. It would add an element of shipping, rather than trading. The player might even be able to haggle, or bid for the contract.

[Zireael]

A solution could be that, If some of the Pirates also had an assassin role as well, then they would attack couriers. This would be like someone hiring a local thug to stop the delivery of those incendiary Zero-G Cricket videos. A real assassin is for when I'm carrying sensitive materials.

I think this is a good idea, myself: most "assassins" would just be local muscle. Getting an actual contract killer (or several) set on you should be a rare event, and something you've earned (perhaps linked to taking out some named personality?).

On the parcels contracts side, it might be worth having a few more short-distance, low-paying jobs on offer for beginners, just as a way of making an extra C*30 or C*40. Perhaps, too, there could be some low-volume bulk haulage available - someone needs a small number of TCs (1-5, say) of furniture shipped from A to B. If the base price was something like C*15 per canister per jump, that might be an attractive deal: it's lower than the top profit margins available, but not every jump is going to be from Rich Industrial to Poor Agricultural - and some of the payment might be up-front. The cargo would have to be unique, rather than generic (i.e. the player couldn't sell it en route, and then buy replacements), and there could be various penalties (including financial ones) for failure, and for partial delivery. It would add an element of shipping, rather than trading. The player might even be able to haggle, or bid for the contract.

Very good ideas both.

[Paradox]

As I pointed out in my story thread, I too, think it's an annoyance as well as unrealistic, to be attacked on almost every passenger contract I take. They should be a rare occurrence. I also think that it would be nice if a small percentage of those, actually warned you that it may be a hazardous contract, and paid you accordingly...

[Zireael]

They should be a rare occurrence. I also think that it would be nice if a small percentage of those, actually warned you that it may be a hazardous contract, and paid you accordingly...

Good point.

[cim]

In the game already we have the bounty hunter role that is barely used for anything. Why do we need an assassin role at all? It's needless duplication and yet more stuff to support in a shipset.

No more support work than there being 7 different pirate roles in 1.80, though? Or am I misunderstanding?

Bounty hunters get a bit more use in 1.80 than they did in 1.77, at least. Certainly there may well be a lot of off-screen overlap between the assassins and hunters; putting that on-screen would need a bit of work on the bounty system, I think. The two need different AIs for now, though.

Making the assassins universally clean was probably a mistake - so long as they're below the policing threshold for the system, some of them could be offenders.

most "assassins" would just be local muscle.

Most of them are. With a few exceptions they're not waiting specifically for you. Still, making it easier for pirates and/or bounty hunters to opportunistically take a contract on you would certainly make things more varied.

Is this because carrying multiple packages/passengers stack the chance of attack?

Yes. The more high-risk packages/passengers you're currently carrying, the more chance that an assassin pack that is specifically after you gets added.

(There's an issue with the way assassins pick targets which means they'll occasionally go after people who've only ever carried "safe" contracts. That will be fixed for 1.82 one way or another.)

I also think that it would be nice if a small percentage of those, actually warned you that it may be a hazardous contract, and paid you accordingly...

This is in there already - both passenger and parcel descriptions have some phrases which are strongly associated with dangerous contracts and some which are strongly associated with safe contracts - and the rate of pay certainly varies heavily with risk. There are a few clients who are either unaware of the danger or who are outright lying, of course (conversely there are some who believe themselves to be in terrible danger out of an inflated sense of self-importance, and will pay premium rates for a perfectly safe trip).

Additionally, the majority of dangerous contracts will only be available at all to someone with a high Elite rating (this could do with some fine-tuning, but mostly works) and a high courier reputation (if you continued a 1.77 savegame in which you'd already done courier work, this will already be at or near the maximum, which will make this harder to see)

[Disembodied]

Making the assassins universally clean was probably a mistake - so long as they're below the policing threshold for the system, some of them could be offenders.

This is a good idea, I think. My perception of the courier market is perhaps a bit skewed: I've only taken one job so far - admittedly a high-paying (~C*400) delivery of court papers, which, as I suspected, drew a lot of hostile attention. But it was offered to me, as an Average pilot with no prior courier experience (I was well on the way to Competent by the time I'd made the delivery).

[Venator Dha]

Thanks for the clarification Cim I really like what has been done so far with 1.80.

I really am enjoying the courier role and and would say I'm about 95% happy with the mechanics, I'm really just looking for a little more variation in the attacks on me for the last 5%.

I started the courier role from scratch in 1.80 with an Adder, have progressed on to a MkI Cobra, and will soon be looking at brochures for a Mk III Any passenger with me now will have a bumpy ride given all the high risk packages I have on board

Edit: I'm currently Above Average with 93 kills

[Cody]

... - admittedly a high-paying (~C*400) delivery of court papers, which, as I suspected, drew a lot of hostile attention.

Trial exhibits and suchlike do indeed draw a lot of hostile attention - but they do pay top-dollar!

[Zireael]

Making the assassins universally clean was probably a mistake - so long as they're below the policing threshold for the system, some of them could be offenders.

That's a good idea.

Also, passengers/whatnot probably shouldn't stack for assassins. Make it more interesting and realistic and not "omg you're so screwed'.

[Thargoid]

No more support work than there being 7 different pirate roles in 1.80, though? Or am I misunderstanding?

Bounty hunters get a bit more use in 1.80 than they did in 1.77, at least. Certainly there may well be a lot of off-screen overlap between the assassins and hunters; putting that on-screen would need a bit of work on the bounty system, I think. The two need different AIs for now, though.

Making the assassins universally clean was probably a mistake - so long as they're below the policing threshold for the system, some of them could be offenders.

When it boils down to it I still don't see why we need both hunter and assassin. And given that there's supposed to be at least some form of police and government around, anything by way of organised assassins just completely jars with the whole game canon, at least for me. It would make more sense if there was some more military side of the game, but as that whole area has been completely pushed to OXP then that for me again would be where assassins if they have to be in place should be.

In terms of support, my meaning was both that suitable ships may well need to be set up for all of the different roles, but more so that if I'm writing a mission then the last thing I want is the annoyance of packs hanging around witchpoints to cope with if they happened to have something ongoing when the mission kicked off. There are a few OXPs who also have done that over time, and at least for me that very quickly results in either the OXP getting editted or removed to take that out. It's a real immersion breaker as the player seems to get picked out and on (at least in those OXP cases, it may or may not be the same in the assassin case).

And the focus on assassins vs couriers makes even less sense. If they must be there then either the Random Hits reasoning of revenge does work (where the "assassin" may or may not be a professional or could just be an associate or family member taking it upon themselves) or in some kind of corporate espionage and competition role (but even then it's more a role for a bounty hunter than an assassin).

But as others have said above it should be extremely rare, almost like a mini-mission to survive it. Certainly not just because a courier mission has been undertaken, except as a specific part of another mini-mission type scenario of getting it into a hostile system, like a smuggling run.

I know it's probably just me, but including things like assassins in the game frankly makes it less of a game that I want to play, as ambushes will quickly become annoyances rather than challenges.

PS I think we need another thread split here

[spara]

I think that this whole assassin thing is really about knowing about the game rules. Clean-Offender-Fugitive is very clear, you shoot at an innocent trader and you get marked, you smuggle contrabands and you get marked and so on. In other words you get to know the consequence the moment you do wrong.

It should be like that with courier jobs too. Maybe even mark the shady ones some way. I don't think that subtle (or not so subtle) hints in text are enough.

And I'm with Thargoid about the ambushes at the witchpoint, they are a real annoyance.

[cim]

When it boils down to it I still don't see why we need both hunter and assassin.

Essentially because otherwise if you stayed as a clean pure courier - especially in an Asp - nothing would attack you. (Using the existing bounty system to get the hunters to attack you would have undesirable side effects in terms of police attacks; just combining the two target selection behaviours would get odd situations where hunters rescue you from pirates, then attack you)

There are ways to merge the two roles more, but I think they depend on other possibly controversial changes being made first. Still, I'll have a look at how that might work.

And given that there's supposed to be at least some form of police and government around, anything by way of organised assassins just completely jars with the whole game canon, at least for me.

The ones in the game certainly try to stay away from anything resembling police or government. Their numbers and strengths are highly suppressed outside Feudal/Anarchy systems. I'm not sure they're necessarily "organised", though, at least no more than the pirate bands are.

but more so that if I'm writing a mission then the last thing I want is the annoyance of packs hanging around witchpoints to cope with if they happened to have something ongoing when the mission kicked off.

This is where the new populator comes in useful.

Code: Select all

this.systemWillPopulate = function() {
  if (missionEventIsHappening()) {
    system.setPopulator("oolite-assassins",null);
    system.setPopulator("oolite-interceptors-witchpoint",null);
  }
}

The two groups really likely to be around the witchpoint when the player arrives now definitely won't be. There's similar code in most of the core missions to remove ships that might interfere with the events there.

If you really want to be certain - once more other OXPs are updated to use the populator, anyway, though Oolite itself will at least respect it - you can even change the population function for that system entirely so no other standard or OXP ships are added except those you specify.

But as others have said above it should be extremely rare, almost like a mini-mission to survive it. Certainly not just because a courier mission has been undertaken, except as a specific part of another mini-mission type scenario of getting it into a hostile system, like a smuggling run.

Adjusting the courier mission generation so that the bug where missions which are supposed to be safe still occasionally attract assassins is fixed, and making the dangerous missions a little more obvious - and a little harder to accidentally take as a complete beginner - is certainly needed.

PS I think we need another thread split here

This does seem to have stopped being about equipment a while ago...

[Thargoid]

As i said, personally speaking I'm just setting the populator to suppress and remove all assassins at all times.

Don't like, don't want, won't have...

[Switeck]

Perhaps, too, there could be some low-volume bulk haulage available - someone needs a small number of TCs (1-5, say) of furniture shipped from A to B. If the base price was something like C*15 per canister per jump,

Many cargo contracts (in base game) have you travel >8 jumps...or more like 20 shorter-ranged jumps. Even 150 credits "profit" for 10 short-ranged jumps per canister is actually pretty horrible. And the question becomes: What's worth that much? And will assassins be attacking you along the way? Or just run-of-the-mill pirates through all the low government systems you'll have to pass through?

if I'm writing a mission then the last thing I want is the annoyance of packs hanging around witchpoints to cope with if they happened to have something ongoing when the mission kicked off. There are a few OXPs who also have done that over time, and at least for me that very quickly results in either the OXP getting editted or removed to take that out. It's a real immersion breaker as the player seems to get picked out and on (at least in those OXP cases, it may or may not be the same in the assassin case).

And the focus on assassins vs couriers makes even less sense.
...
But as others have said above it should be extremely rare, almost like a mini-mission to survive it. Certainly not just because a courier mission has been undertaken, except as a specific part of another mini-mission type scenario of getting it into a hostile system, like a smuggling run.

Yeah, why shove everything within sight of the witchspace beacon?
Even the Constrictor does that, which wasn't the case in Elite -- you had to go "hunting" for it, not that it was too hard to find.

Most of the stuff the player does cannot possibly rate being singled out for destruction by assassins. You're just an itty-bitty fish in a great big ocean. Almost no matter what you do, one Galactic Jump or even 5+ regular jumps away from a system, you're a nobody again.

An ambush by assassins makes some sense if you're hauling extremely valuable cargo, parcels, or persons...meaning you're already at the top of the reputation for that type of delivery. Even then, maybe only once along the trip...not multiple times just because you passed through 4 anarchies in a row.

[mossfoot]

Idea for assassins, or bounty hunters if you're a pirate - what if on occasion rather than being attacked you have fast "scout vessels" that don't attack, but get within 15 or 10 km to gain confirmation of your presence on board (not your ship ID, that they get off the bat) but your personal lifesign, then flee (perhaps saying something like, "we got what we need, let's go!), intending to relay the information to the real attackers (either a powerful ship or a larger squad).

Point being, if you can destroy the ship before it escapes, you can avoid all that. But if it escapes, you get attacked either en-route to the station or the next time you jump systems.