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Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:12 pm
by CommonSenseOTB
So this allows you to store extra missiles but doesn't take up any of your cargo space a la Dr. Who? While npcs can have up to 32 missile capacity in the shipdata, players can have only 16 in shipdata. That was done to prevent players from having too powerful a ship, right? So this oxp makes that kind of control over player ship missile capacity pointless, right? Why don't we just request that the core game be changed to allow both npcs and players to have up to 32 missile capacity?
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:28 pm
by Commander McLane
CommonSenseOTB wrote:So this oxp makes that kind of control over player ship missile capacity pointless, right?
Exactly. And before you ask why, I give you the answer: because we can.
If you would call this essentially a cheat, I'd be the first to agree. That's why I'm not downloading and installing it. If you don't like the idea of the OXP, I'd recommend you do the same.
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:16 pm
by Smivs
So what's the issue?
16 pylons are more than most would want...I for one rarely have any more than two in use and often run with empty pylons. For others, it seems, 16 is not enough.
Yes off course this is a 'cheat' just like dozens of other OXPs out there (including at least one of mine!) but as has been said, you don't have to download/use it if you don't like/want it, and if having more pylons than you know what to do with floats your boat, well then you'll be happy.
Oolite is so flexible these days in terms of what can be done with OXPs that sooner or later someone will exploit new features, and in doing so will stretch the boundaries a bit further, which in principle is a good thing. This has no effect whatsoever on the core game, and will only affect the games of those who want to change things to suit themselves. Personally I think that OXPs like this break the game, but it's their game, not mine and we are a broad church, so what the heck! Why not?
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:57 pm
by Duggan
I'm sure this, to oxp or not to oxp debate is a really old chestnut but My 2gs for what they are worth.
None of the core values of the Oolite game need ever be affected, No one is forced to install an oxp and thusly a dyed in the wool Oolite purist need never be troubled or offended by any newly developed oxp or indeed old oxp.
I also note that major engagements for the Galactic Navy and the Assassins Guild are really quick ways of emptying ones Pylons.
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:02 pm
by Thargoid
CommonSenseOTB wrote:So this allows you to store extra missiles but doesn't take up any of your cargo space a la Dr. Who? While npcs can have up to 32 missile capacity in the shipdata, players can have only 16 in shipdata. That was done to prevent players from having too powerful a ship, right? So this oxp makes that kind of control over player ship missile capacity pointless, right? Why don't we just request that the core game be changed to allow both npcs and players to have up to 32 missile capacity?
Yes, for the simple reason that OXPs can't take up cargo space. If they could, it would...
From the download stats of various of my "cheat" and "non-cheat" OXPs, purists who don't want things that give them an edge are fairly certainly in the minority...
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:54 pm
by Okti
Smivs wrote:
but it's their game, not mine and we are a broad church, so what the heck! Why not?
+ 1
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:58 pm
by Cody
Thargoid wrote:purists who don't want things that give them an edge are fairly certainly in the minority...
I am not in the least surprised!
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:14 pm
by Wildeblood
Thargoid wrote:CommonSenseOTB wrote:So this allows you to store extra missiles but doesn't take up any of your cargo space a la Dr. Who?
Yes, for the simple reason that OXPs can't take up cargo space. If they could, it would...
Can't you just stuff a tonne of something (alien items renamed to "Shipboard Equipment" with descriptions.plist) into the cargo bay whenever the player buys some uber-tech and remove the equipment item, or reverse the sale, if they accidentally sell the cargo/equipment...?
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:20 pm
by Thargoid
It gets complicated by things like New Cargoes, Hypercargo, cargo dumping, cargo destruction etc, aside from of course it getting sold. Plus renaming via description.plist would only be for scooping said cargo, not when it's actually in the hold.
In this case there's also the argument that if the equipment gets damaged/destroyed, there would be a risk that the ship detonates. Something i considered but decided not to implement in this OXP.
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:29 pm
by Kaks
Extra bonus complexificationtudement: you could have the APRIL system coming complete with its own 'APRIL Assistant', an android that enables the system to work, and implemented as a passenger... its destination and arrival time could be made to fit a maintenance schedule, or you could remove it from the passenger list whenver you're looking at the passenger manifest/galaxy map!
Or I suppose you could leave the OXP as it is.
Difficult choice!
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:30 pm
by Thargoid
Or perhaps I could just put in a feature request for an equipment key which actually takes away cargo capacity a la the passenger berth, rather than one that just requires it to be present but not blocking it of like we have now?
I would also comment that if you combine APRIL, Repair Bots (or more specifically repair system) and perhaps HyperCargo, you have a fair basis for what could be reimagined as a crew OXP...
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:43 pm
by CommonSenseOTB
Thargoid wrote:Or perhaps I could just put in a feature request for an equipment key which actually takes away cargo capacity a la the passenger berth, rather than one that just requires it to be present but not blocking it of like we have now?
That is a very very good idea with tonnes of oxp applications which lets the oxp author maintain some balance and realism by setting how much cargo space should be used by a piece of equipment.
I second this excellent idea!
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:54 pm
by SandJ
CommonSenseOTB wrote:maintain some balance and realism by setting how much cargo space should be used by a piece of equipment.
I second this excellent idea!
IIRC it's how Frontier worked. It has puzzled me how I could carry around what must be heavy equipment - like Armoury's Missile Machine and the Ore Processor - without losing cargo space and cargo capacity.
Also, when I have 100 tonnes of equipment and weapons on my Cobra + cargo too, why does it still go at the same speed / turn as when it is empty?
Presumably, because Elite's not Frontier and Newtonian physics does not apply.
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:18 pm
by Wildeblood
Thargoid wrote:Plus renaming via description.plist would only be for scooping said cargo, not when it's actually in the hold.
Nah, you're wrong about that. Try it and see; just copy this into description
s.plist:-
Code: Select all
{
// Commodity names
"commodity-name food" = "Food";
"commodity-name textiles" = "Textiles";
"commodity-name radioactives" = "Radio-isotopes";
"commodity-name slaves" = "Edible Arts Graduates";
"commodity-name liquor/wines" = "Leestian Evil Juice";
"commodity-name luxuries" = "Luxuries";
"commodity-name narcotics" = "Arcturian Megaweed";
"commodity-name computers" = "Computers";
"commodity-name machinery" = "Machinery";
"commodity-name alloys" = "Unattainium Alloy";
"commodity-name firearms" = "Firearms";
"commodity-name furs" = "Furs";
"commodity-name minerals" = "Asteroid Ore";
"commodity-name gold" = "Gold";
"commodity-name platinum" = "Platinum";
"commodity-name gem-stones" = "Gem Stones";
"commodity-name alien items" = "Thargoid Robo-Brains";
}
Re: APRIL OXP (Automated Pylon Re-arm In-flight Loader)
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:22 pm
by Thargoid
I meant it's all or nothing - if I used Alien Items for the equipment (for example) and then scooped a thargon, I'd end up scooping a second "unit" of the equipment. Same would occur for all the others, replacing thargon with a cargo pod or splinter/wreckage as appropriate.
It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it can be done elegantly.