Partial Witch Space Jumps Using Spare Drive

[Thargoid]

It is no.

To make a jump how you want to do it (say your 7.2ly) via a mis-jump to get you 3.6ly from the place (so you can either refuel or use your 2nd drive), you initially have to set your target system to the 7.2ly one and then try and make a jump. At this point the game will refuse (as it's too far away), hence you can't get to the misjump point and so can't make the traverse.

Fundamentally it's not possible to set your jump point anywhere in-between systems (in the above case the 3.6ly point). That's the basic flaw in what you are trying to do.

What is possible is to mis-jump between two systems that are <=7ly apart, and so end up in interstellar space mid-way between them. You can then use that as the starting point for a jump towards a third system which is <=7ly from that point (but potentially >7ly from either the initial or originally set destination points). But that's a different scenario, for which you don't need a second drive (just an external fuel tank or two).

[mandoman]

It is no.

To make a jump how you want to do it (say your 7.2ly) via a mis-jump to get you 3.6ly from the place (so you can either refuel or use your 2nd drive), you initially have to set your target system to the 7.2ly one and then try and make a jump. At this point the game will refuse (as it's too far away), hence you can't get to the misjump point and so can't make the traverse.

Fundamentally it's not possible to set your jump point anywhere in-between systems (in the above case the 3.6ly point). That's the basic flaw in what you are trying to do.

What is possible is to mis-jump between two systems that are <=7ly apart, and so end up in interstellar space mid-way between them. You can then use that as the starting point for a jump towards a third system which is <=7ly from that point (but potentially >7ly from either the initial or originally set destination points). But that's a different scenario, for which you don't need a second drive (just an external fuel tank or two).

Um, Okay. I must admit that I don't understand what you just said, but knowing who you are says that what ever it was, you are correct.

[Thargoid]

Code: Select all

A *  *  *  *  *C *  *  *  *  * B
  *            *             *
     *         *         *
        E      *      *
           *   *   *
              ***
               D

Say for the moment that A-B is 7ly and A-D is 7.2ly.

A, B and D are systems, and C and E are interstellar space mid-way between AB and AD respectively.

Your method of getting from A --> D would be to set D as your target system, and then mis-jump part-way (to E in the above), and then use your second drive to jump again (from E --> D). But when you try and make the first mis-jump (A --> E) the jump won't happen, as the set target (D) is out of range. It's not possible to get to E directly from A.

The only way you can do it potentially is to set course for B, and mis-jump to end up at C. You can then refuel or activate your second drive, and make the jump from C --> D as it is only 6.2ly between them (AD ^ 2 = AC ^ 2 + CD ^2 from Pythagorus theory, presuming there is a right-angle at C).

We're not making a 7.2ly jump, but cheating by using the forced mis-jump to do it in two hops, but with each hop having a valid target system (one that is <=7ly from the start of the jump).

[mandoman]

Code: Select all

A *  *  *  *  *C *  *  *  *  * B
  *            *             *
     *         *         *
        E      *      *
           *   *   *
              ***
               D

Say for the moment that A-B is 7ly and A-D is 7.2ly.

A, B and D are systems, and C and E are interstellar space mid-way between AB and AD respectively.

Your method of getting from A --> D would be to set D as your target system, and then mis-jump part-way (to E in the above), and then use your second drive to jump again (from E --> D). But when you try and make the first mis-jump (A --> E) the jump won't happen, as the set target (D) is out of range. It's not possible to get to E directly from A.

The only way you can do it potentially is to set course for B, and mis-jump to end up at C. You can then refuel or activate your second drive, and make the jump from C --> D as it is only 6.2ly between them (AD ^ 2 = AC ^ 2 + CD ^2 from Pythagorus theory, presuming there is a right-angle at C).

We're not making a 7.2ly jump, but cheating by using the forced mis-jump to do it in two hops, but with each hop having a valid target system (one that is <=7ly from the start of the jump).

Ah! I take it that the "mis-jump" function is capable of being triggered on command? I've not used it before, so I don't know.

[Thargoid]

By script or by holding down full pitch when you jump yes. It'll take you into interstellar space, and normally into the arms of my alien bretheren and a pitched battle.

But the point is to make a mis-jump you have to have a valid normal jump endpoint set (one that is within 7ly of your present position) to achieve it. If you do then you'll end up in interstellar space at a position mid-way between the two on the short-range map (and the long-range one too ).

[mandoman]

By script or by holding down full pitch when you jump yes. It'll take you into interstellar space, and normally into the arms of my alien bretheren and a pitched battle.

But the point is to make a mis-jump you have to have a valid normal jump endpoint set (one that is within 7ly of your present position) to achieve it. If you do then you'll end up in interstellar space at a position mid-way between the two on the short-range map (and the long-range one too ).

Excuse my ignorance. "full pitch"?

[Thargoid]

All the way upwards or downwards. Pull back/push forward on your joystick all the way (or do the keyboard or mouse equivalent) all the way down until the jump countdown timer hits zero.

If you're at full-lock then you'll end up in witchspace (and trouble).

[mandoman]

All the way upwards or downwards. Pull back/push forward on your joystick all the way (or do the keyboard or mouse equivalent) all the way down until the jump countdown timer hits zero.

If you're at full-lock then you'll end up in witchspace (and trouble).

I had a feeling that's what it was, but wanted to be sure. Thanks.

[DaddyHoggy]

There are tales told on this board indicating that this was indeed possible in 8-bit Elite (I think DaddyHoggy wrote about it once). You could head into the right direction and then leave your computer running for the night. However, Oolite's inner workings are different. They don't allow for connections between systems. Technically, only one system (the one you're currently in) exists at all. Jumping means to completely destroy that system and creating another one from scratch. So there are never two different systems existing at any one time. Therefore you can't fly between them.

What happened specifically is that I once jumped on my C64 - and the computer misjumped. I killed the Thargoids and then found I was too far from any system to jump with my remainder of fuel. In disgust I went down stairs for tea - I forgot about the game for the rest of the evening and didn't turn the TV back on until I went to bed and noticed the crosshair of were I'd originally jumped to and where I actually was had separated by one pixel in the direction I'd originally been flying. So I turned the TV off - put a lump of blu-tack over the 64 Power LED so my parents wouldn't see I'd left the computer on - and went to sleep.

When I got up the next day, I turned the TV on and saw the crosshairs had separated by 4 pixels. So I left it for the rest of the day - and just before bed - I tried locking on to a nearby system discovered I was now (just) within range of it...

So, what I determined from this was - the C64, free of anything else in the scene, ran as fast as it could - and that it was carrying on along the same vector I had originally taken (between my two systems) during my jump irrespective of the vector (in 3D) I had happened to take post battle.

I'll happily take a polygraph that these events are as accurate as I remember them from almost 30 years ago...

I can't imagine how long it would have taken between systems doing this deliberately (given in normal space - even at great distance away from the sun/planet the game occasionally/eventually threw a pirate in your path - even in Corporate States)

[Cody]

I'll happily take a polygraph that these events are as accurate as I remember them from almost 30 years ago...

<chortles heartily>

[JensAyton]

When I got up the next day, I turned the TV on and saw the crosshairs had separated by 4 pixels. So I left it for the rest of the day - and just before bed - I tried locking on to a nearby system discovered I was now (just) within range of it...

If this is accurate – brains being unreliable sources of data, and all that – it would mean that rather than a continuous space with all the planets in, you were flying in interstellar space with no planets at any point, but your movements were projected into map space. This is still surprising, but not as crazy (for an eight-bit system) as actually being able to fly between planets.

[Micha]

That is sortof a cool way around the 'press space commander' situation if you misjump and are left with insufficient fuel.

I wonder if we could add that to Oolite:

You don't even need to simulate multiple systems simultaneously either, all you have to do is change galaxy coordinates in witchspace for every X distance covered, and then once the galaxy coords are the same as the target system you generate it and enter it at extreme distance without a tunnel effect, turning on the space compass and whatnot.
Would need a lot of work to smoothly transition from witchspace to system-space though..

[Thargoid]

It doesn't even have to be that - as long as flying in interstellar space (and flying a long distance) does move the cursor, then presuming the player hasn't been stupid enough to use all of their fuel up, then once they've moved a bit they can come into range and do a normal jump to get where they are going.

It could possibly be argued that even if the cursor is directly over the system (when flown as above before the jump) then the player could still be a fair distance from the actual planet/sun and not be able to find it, whereas the jump system automagically locks on and can. But of course that way without at least 0.1ly of fuel they will still never actually be able to reach the destination system.

Any other way would require the ability for a 0.0ly jump for no fuel to be re-enabled (iirc the minimum of 0.1ly was put in for the systems that are co-incident on the map).

[Switeck]

The game gets strange if you place the player's ship VERY far from [0,0,0] ...so flying from one system to the next would require quite a few modifications to work well.

I just use auto-jumping OXPs like Wormhole Drones and Long Range Target Scanner ...and extra fuel OXPs like Fuel Tank and Fuel Collector to get where I want to go.

Even hitch-hiking on NPC ships' wormholes can get you a couple interesting places, though it's probably unpolite to drag npcs into interstellar space via a misjump and leave them there to die by Thargoids...or stranded due to lack of remaining jump fuel.

[Cody]

it's probably unpolite to drag npcs into interstellar space via a misjump and leave them there to die by Thargoids

This presents a moral problem for a regular wormhole hitcher such as me!