Advise me on buying a laptop for Oolite?!

[maaarcooose]

Dell can be a bit hit and miss with laptops. I'm not gonna deny that, but cost to spec is pretty good.
I personally never have much in the way of problems with dell support. My entire workplace pretty much runs on dell.

Like I say dell are hit and miss with lappys. My old Inspiron x300 is great. My current one is good despite its minor faults.
On the other hand, I know that pretty much every Inspiron 8200 and 8600 get a motherboard failure.


Every hp I've ever had has messed up really badly and their power supply failure rate is insane. After supporting 100+ of them for several years I would never recommend them. IBM did do decent laptops till they became Lenovo. Toshiba are generally ok but just feel cheap. Acer are notorious for really terrible support so that pretty much leaves msi next time I want a lappy.

Given the amount of money a really good laptop costs I always get disappointed at how much they can fail.

I am now tempted by the razer blade gaming laptop though.

!m!

[JazHaz]

An update to this thread. My flat sold a couple of weeks ago, and now I am starting to look seriously at a new laptop.

So far, I have the following specs:

• 64bit, Quad Core Processor
  Windows 7/8
  NVIDIA graphics chip, possibly GT series
  NOT Dell
  NOT HP

Any other advice? I know Alienware is owned by Dell, but does that knock them out of the reckoning (I know, I know, serious money and performance for Oolite is overkill )?

[snork]

First, can you wait a little more ?
It is right now that the new generation of intel core-i processors is making it into notebooks, and the same for new graphics cards from nvidia (and AMD).

Those generally deliver (little) more Ooomph per Watt, resp. the possibility to produce less heat (->noise) and lower powerconsumption for the same Oomph. (depends on the notebooks manufacturer)

The new intel processors come with an upgraded integrated graphics device (intel HD 4000), that should be strong enough to play shadered Oolite (well, let's wait and see ) and older or not-so-graphics-demanding games.

But right now only very few notebooks with them new cpu models / graphics are available.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with the "current" generation of intel CPUs or graphics cards from nvidia (maybe the same for AMD).
But hopefully this-generation-notebooks drop in price these following weeks or months.

But also if you want a new notebook right now, there are good ones, at justifiable prices.

64bit, Quad Core Processor
Windows 7/8
NVIDIA graphics chip, possibly GT series

Quad core is most probably not really necessary, more than anything it is still a deceiving marketing term (my estimation: 1% of users really profit from a 4core, 99% do not, just paid more).
I'd highly prefer an intel dual core i5 (or i3) over any AMD quadcore A4 or A6 CPU.
There is nothing really wrong with a quad core, but if a notebook was built with a dual core, that'd be my least concern.
If in some notebook everything else is like you want it, a dual core will not keep you from doing this or that with it.
(Games will typically be limited by the graphics card long before the CPU can not keep up anymore.)

Windows 8 may be fine for tablets and such stuff, for PCs it offers no gain over Windows 7.

NOT Dell, NOT HP

Both manufacturers build good laptops, and also "bad" laptops.
Of course you can not expect a perfect laptop from their cheapo-cheapo series (e.g. Dell Inspiron, HP 630 or 635), resp. with HP from their lots-and-lots-of-hardware for relatively-low-price series.

All of these "Acer is crap", "Sony is good" and such overly simplifying advices are, well, overly simplifying.

But OK, there isn't a HP for gaming I'd recommend anyway*, and for DELL that only means the XPS 15 and 17 are out of the competition.
*ok I would and did, but only because the person did not expect a longevity-superquality product, wanted to play games badly, and had only little money.
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Well, whatever, time for you to to explain / find out, what you want from the notebook :

- Where are you situated ? Was it in the UK or in the USA ?
- How much money do you want to / can you spend ? Is each £ or $ saved important ? I mean Alienware is really expensive, and imo. overpriced.
- How mobile does it need to be ? (size, weight, battery life)
- Do you (often?) want to use it in bad lighting situations ? (e.g. sunny balcony, outside)
- How much gaming do you plan to do ? Each and every game to be released in the next 3 years, always at highest resolution and highest details, with all enhancements ? Or can you live with game-details set to "medium" and a little less AA and AF ?

Generally : the more gaming power a notebook has, the more raises the power consumption, the heat, the noise. And the price.
Also, the stronger the graphics, the bigger the notebook needs to be.

- Longevity ? Do you want to stay with that notebook for years and years, or are you ready to buy a new one in - say - 2 years and sell this one ?
- Any preference in : matte display or glaring display ?
- Any wishes or limits for : quality of the display ? (resolution / black level / brightness / contrast / viewing angles)
Higher resolution has some advantages, also (expensive) displays of really good quality are usually found only in the high-resolution segment. (some 1600x900, but mostly 1920x1080).
Resolution, and generally display quality, is less important if the notebook is e.g. used as desktop replacement, with an external monitor attached.
- Any special wishes ? e.g. internal UMTS / 3G, backlit keyboard, docking solution, Blueray reader, 3D Display+emitter, extra support options/ garantuee extensions, some special connector because that's how your video camera connects, or sth. ?



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these days it should be a challenge to find a new laptop that doesn't support the game at full shaders

at the time of Thargoid's posting, there was a Sony Vaio Z-soso, that came with whopping OpenGL 1.1. For just 2000 €.

[maaarcooose]

I'm just going to add my piece on Acer and Sony.

Acer seem to do really good products, but everyone I know that has had to deal with their customer support has been seriously disappointed.

Sony on the other hand I find seriously lacking in terms of quality for the price they ask.

I'm in the market for a new lappy soon too and the only thing that is stopping me from buying a Mac Book Pro is that the 13" version only comes with Intel Graphics and no matt screen option. If they bring out a 13" version with ATi or Nvidia, I'm sold.

Aside from the Apple option, I'm considering an ASUS, MSI or NovaTech.

!m!

[Capt. Murphy]

The new intel processors come with an upgraded integrated graphics device (intel HD 4000), that should be strong enough to play shadered Oolite (well, let's wait and see ) and older or not-so-graphics-demanding games.

The hardware will certainly be strong enough, but it might take Intel a while to get the drivers sorted.....

Now that I've got the drivers sorted an Oolite has been tweaked, I can't complain about my Intel core i5 and HD3000 HP laptop. Oolite's frame rate is a solid 99fps in full shadered glory, and everything else on the PC feels lightening quick compared to my old XP machine, and the 1 year old (business) Lenovos we are saddled with at work. Dunno about other games, don't play them.

[Cody]

Dunno about other games, don't play them.

There are other games? Well, there is Asteroids!

[JazHaz]

I was in Comet today, and very nearly bought an end of line Sony VAIO 3D laptop. It had a Intel Core i7 processor and a 3D capable screen. I tested Oolite on it with my new 32gb USB 3.0 stick, and I was getting 75 fps in full shaders, with a full load of OXPs including Griff's Shipset.

It was reduced from £1599 to £959.

Unfortunately the shop couldn't find the box or more importantly its battery. So I went home disappointed and empty handed.

[JazHaz]

On another note, took my old laptop to get it repaired, turned out it was the power lead. £40 paid for a new lead and now I'm using my old laptop again.

Still will be buying a new laptop, as this one is non-shaders, but its much better than the old Samsung netbook I have been using.

[Cody]

I use a desktop, but a couple of pals have been well pleased with Toshiba's laptops. At around £1,000 they do some nice models... this, for example.
But as I say, I know zilch about laptops.

[Capt. Murphy]

It was reduced from £1599 to £959.
.

Rip-off. Mine cost me £100 (it was sort of second hand - someone elses unwanted Xmas present bought by me 9 days after Xmas). I saw the same model in Comet in the January Sales for £399.

[JazHaz]

Well, whatever, time for you to to explain / find out, what you want from the notebook :

- Where are you situated ? Was it in the UK or in the USA ?
- How much money do you want to / can you spend ? Is each £ or $ saved important ? I mean Alienware is really expensive, and imo. overpriced.
- How mobile does it need to be ? (size, weight, battery life)
- Do you (often?) want to use it in bad lighting situations ? (e.g. sunny balcony, outside)
- How much gaming do you plan to do ? Each and every game to be released in the next 3 years, always at highest resolution and highest details, with all enhancements ? Or can you live with game-details set to "medium" and a little less AA and AF ?

Answers:

1) UK
2) Upto £1500 but probably around the £1000 mark
3) It needs to be luggable, but I only really use it at home, either on the sofa, or in bed.
4) Usually indoors, but possibly I will take it to the pub
5) Mostly browsing, playing Oolite and some selected modern games. I want a decent laptop that can run modern games at a decent quality but not necessarily the highest detail mode.

[snork]

There are other games?

There are. Some I'd even like to play.

Usually though they then are Xbox- or PS- -only.

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If they can't find the battery, and you really want that Sony - persuade them to reduce it even more (700 £ ) and you go and buy a replacement battery from Sony yourself.
Make sure they haven't lost the glasses, too

[JazHaz]

One last question before I splash the cash, is the 64bit Windows version of Oolite available to download, or do I have to build it mysef?

[another_commander]

One last question before I splash the cash, is the 64bit Windows version of Oolite available to download, or do I have to build it mysef?

There seems to be a misunderstanding. There is NO 64-bit Windows version of Oolite. Oolite on Windows is a 32-bit only application.

What exists in trunk and the 1.76-maintenance branch (currently not released officially) is the Large Address Aware version of Oolite. This is not the same as a 64-bit Windows build of the game. The Large Address Aware version will let 64-bit Windows allocate 4GB of RAM to the game instead of the normal 2GB that are allocated as maximum to 32-bit apps. It will also allow 32-bit Windows (e.g. XP) to allocate a maximum of 3GB of RAM to the game, provided that a special switch in boot.ini has been set accordingly. In all other cases, the game behaves just like before.

With this cleared up, the answer to the question is: For the moment, you either build the game yourself or ask Capt. Murphy for a pre-built installer, which is unsupported by the Oolite dev team. This is built as Large Address Aware, but you are completely on your own if your brand new laptop starts emitting smoke etc as a result of using this installer.

[snork]

As far as I understood it, there is no 64bit windows build of Oolite. Then again, it is not needed, Windows 64bit runs 32bit applications mostly fine.

To have Oolite enabled to use more than 2GB of RAM, you can run the 1.77 trunk version that seems to be LAA-enhanced (enabling 32 program to use more than 2GB of RAM), but as 1.77trunk seems to be under heavy development right now - no idea if this is the right thing for you. see above post.

see also here : https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11809

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re that Sony notebook - You did not tell what model it is, I assume a Vaio F21* or a Vaio F23* ?

Those with "Vaio Premium plus blabla" display - them displays are really good, but :

They feature a GT540 (or maybe newer models a GT630?), wich is a "casual gamer" or "middle-class" graphics card.
If you run the notebook at it's native display resolution (FullHD), then a GT540 can - with modern and graphics intensive games, not so much with Oolite - reach its limitations.

For the aimed at 3D-gaming, particularly in combo with FullHD resolution, a GT540 is definitely too weak. Once again, this refers to modern and graphics-intensive games.

3D-movie watching should be fine, maybe also 3D-gaming of not-so-graphically intensive games.