Oolite Bulletins

CaptSolo wrote:

Azured wrote:

Surprisingly, many feudal systems have proven to be safe havens when compared to some multi-governments.

That has been my experience as well.

. . . and I thought it was just me, Anarchies too!

I'm not quite sure how to answer the poll, but here's a little bit about how I run my game.

I have several mods that increase difficulty: Deep Space Pirates, NPC Shields, Pirate Coves, ToughGuys Armageddon, and Renegades.

I started my game out with 100,000.0 credits and a fully equipped Cobra 3. Even with all the best equipment I have to run from many fights. I view the 100,000.0 credits as a kind of buffer, I only dig into it if I really need to, and so far I haven't had to.

I make my money bounty hunting and scooping up pirate cargo. I'll sometimes take on a passenger, but I prefer not to. Currently I am collecting kills so I can qualify for more lucrative missions from Random Hits.

And since a couple of people have mentioned it, I will resort to editing my save file to remove the occasional Offender status I get from truly hectic fire fights. I would never fire on a GalCop vessel on purpose. I will sell narcotics, slaves, and firearms that I scoop up. But I will never purchase them or leave a station with them on board.

It makes me smile (ruefully) how many players bypass the mechanisms that make the game what it is - how much money, equipment you start with. Dealing with the consequences of becoming Offender (even accidentally). Knowing you can hack your file and resisting the urge to do so...

I don't know, to each their own I guess, but it is sort of missing the point of the reason the way the game was created the way it was.

I guess I'm just really surprised - I wonder how many of the old school 80s Eliters would consider hacking their save game (other than play testing for OXP creation) - I'm hoping not many - it just feels wrong...

Bugbear wrote:

Black Monks are fair game as far as I'm concerned, but only from a safe distance I just don't like their business model and I like to think I'm doing my bit by throwing a small spanner in their works. (...I wonder if their stations are destructible? I've got a Q-bomb that's just begging...)

Well, *shooting* them, I'm fine with. If they try to "collect" from someone near a main station and get an offender tag and then end up shooting a police Viper, their bounty can get up to some pretty tasty levels. I meant I won't take out a loan from them, since their rates are ridiculous and they don't actually loan out enough to make it worthwhile.

DaddyHoggy wrote:

It makes me smile (ruefully) how many players bypass the mechanisms that make the game what it is - how much money, equipment you start with. Dealing with the consequences of becoming Offender (even accidentally). Knowing you can hack your file and resisting the urge to do so...

I don't know, to each their own I guess, but it is sort of missing the point of the reason the way the game was created the way it was.

I guess I'm just really surprised - I wonder how many of the old school 80s Eliters would consider hacking their save game (other than play testing for OXP creation) - I'm hoping not many - it just feels wrong...

Well... I can assure you that my game is anything but easy. I'd encourage you to try Tough Guys Armageddon. You pretty much need an Iron-Ass to survive. Not to mention the crazy Elite Renegades I encounter from time to time.

As far as accidentally firing on GalCop vessels... The one time I fired on a GalCop vessel, it was during a pretty intense fight and I was trying to help them. I think, in real life, they would turn a blind eye to a minor mistake like that. That's why I edited my save. I also have the Anarchies mod, which I believe extends the time you will keep an Offender status.

I don't want an easy game. I want a game that is challenging and exciting. My game has a lot more traffic than vanilla Oolite. And my enemies are very tough. I've taken care in keeping a good balance. I encounter single enemies that can obliterate me in seconds.

I will add that there are several OXPs that I will not use at all because I think they make the game too easy.

Yes, my Oolite is quite different from Elite, but it is well-balanced.

Ganelon wrote:

Bugbear wrote:

Black Monks are fair game as far as I'm concerned, but only from a safe distance I just don't like their business model and I like to think I'm doing my bit by throwing a small spanner in their works. (...I wonder if their stations are destructible? I've got a Q-bomb that's just begging...)

Well, *shooting* them, I'm fine with. If they try to "collect" from someone near a main station and get an offender tag and then end up shooting a police Viper, their bounty can get up to some pretty tasty levels. I meant I won't take out a loan from them, since their rates are ridiculous and they don't actually loan out enough to make it worthwhile.

Ahh yes, Black Monks. Their ships are tough, but slow as cold taffy. Their banks only have guns on one end, and while the banks are surrounded by a ring of Q-bomb defusing sats, they're NOT immune to a cascade torpedo strike. "Fox four! Say goodnight, losers!"

Since I strongly disagree with their ways of loan-sharking and breaking legs doing business, Black Monks are prey.

DaddyHoggy wrote:

It makes me smile (ruefully) how many players bypass the mechanisms that make the game what it is - how much money, equipment you start with. Dealing with the consequences of becoming Offender (even accidentally). Knowing you can hack your file and resisting the urge to do so...

I don't know, to each their own I guess, but it is sort of missing the point of the reason the way the game was created the way it was.

I guess I'm just really surprised - I wonder how many of the old school 80s Eliters would consider hacking their save game (other than play testing for OXP creation) - I'm hoping not many - it just feels wrong...

I've been thinking about the same thing while reading the posts on this forum. First I thought it's just the way life has turned out these days - if you can't beat it, cheat it.

But then it got me thinking that the only times I've thought about cheating were when things got really tough - so tough I was barely surviving. Maybe the game is surprisingly tough as it is, as sometimes you can make several milk runs in a row and sometimes you make one false move and it's Press Space Commander again. It is very easy to up the difficulty even further with several OXPs - even the scoring model of the game rewards extra difficulty in the form of bounties and quicker ascension to Elite. Maybe cheating is just a understandable reaction sparked by survival instinct when faced with something more than players can chew in these kind of situations?

So far I've been able to resist the allure of cheating and I don't think I'm the kind of player that resorts (easily) into cheating anyway. I like this game for the difficult challenges it provides and the feeling I get when overcoming these challenges through my own intellect, dexterity and experience. Sure, I've even accidentally shot a main station while docking dead tired, but that's why you've got the Galactic Hyperdrive or Fuel Scoops to clear your record by travelling.

DaddyHoggy wrote:

It makes me smile (ruefully) how many players bypass the mechanisms that make the game what it is - how much money, equipment you start with. Dealing with the consequences of becoming Offender (even accidentally). Knowing you can hack your file and resisting the urge to do so...

I don't know, to each their own I guess, but it is sort of missing the point of the reason the way the game was created the way it was.

I guess I'm just really surprised - I wonder how many of the old school 80s Eliters would consider hacking their save game (other than play testing for OXP creation) - I'm hoping not many - it just feels wrong...

Completely agreed.

When I played Elite first on the C64, and then again later on the Atari ST I didn't even think about cheating. In those days we were playing games just like they came. I wouldn't even have known how to cheat in the first place, other than to save at each station and revert to my last save if something had gone horribly wrong. I did that. But editing a save-game? Was that even possible on a C64 or Atari ST? As I said, even the thought never once crossed my mind. And even today I have no idea what the save-files looked like, and whether it would have been possible to edit them. I don't even want to know the answer.

In Oolite I have edited save-files for playtesting: things like giving myself all core ships one after the other when testing the external views on them, or giving myself enough credits when I tested the mechanism of buying salvaged equipment from a Salvage Gang, and the mechanisms of getting clean. Nowadays some of these tests don't even require bothering with a save-game, because the manipulations can be performed much easier in the JS-console. But the basic functions of Anarchies.oxp were written in the pre-JS days.

I also really cheated on some occasions when I found that my contract reputation wore off too quickly. But I never would have considered to give myself a head start in the beginning of the game. A Cobra III and 100 credits, that's it. And I also find that it doesn't take long to make the first couple of thousand credits.

I can understand that it feels intimidating to start your game like that in an OXP-rich environment. Yes, you may feel overwhelmed when you have Tough Guys installed. But then again, Tough Guys isn't meant for a beginner Jameson. I would rather suggest to play "vanilla" Oolite, without a single OXP installed, until you've made your first 50,000 bucks or so. That's what I did. At that time, when you've purchased the most important equipment and still have a little cash, you can look into which OXPs to install. You will have a pretty good feeling for Oolite-as-such by then, and this will also help you to decide in which ways you want to alter your personal Ooniverse, and which OXPs you need for these alterations.

kgs wrote:

I also have the Anarchies mod, which I believe extends the time you will keep an Offender status.

No, it specifically doesn't, but leaves the Offender status purposefully untouched. It's all in the manual (Wiki page, ReadMe).

Commander McLane wrote:

I would rather suggest to play "vanilla" Oolite, without a single OXP installed, until you've made your first 50,000 bucks or so. That's what I did.

That's pretty much how I went about it too... standard Cobra III and 100c, and the only OXPs I installed early on were a hud and some system eye-candy.

kgs wrote:

DaddyHoggy wrote:

It makes me smile (ruefully) how many players bypass the mechanisms that make the game what it is - how much money, equipment you start with. Dealing with the consequences of becoming Offender (even accidentally). Knowing you can hack your file and resisting the urge to do so...

I don't know, to each their own I guess, but it is sort of missing the point of the reason the way the game was created the way it was.

I guess I'm just really surprised - I wonder how many of the old school 80s Eliters would consider hacking their save game (other than play testing for OXP creation) - I'm hoping not many - it just feels wrong...

Well... I can assure you that my game is anything but easy. I'd encourage you to try Tough Guys Armageddon. You pretty much need an Iron-Ass to survive. Not to mention the crazy Elite Renegades I encounter from time to time.

As far as accidentally firing on GalCop vessels... The one time I fired on a GalCop vessel, it was during a pretty intense fight and I was trying to help them. I think, in real life, they would turn a blind eye to a minor mistake like that. That's why I edited my save. I also have the Anarchies mod, which I believe extends the time you will keep an Offender status.

I don't want an easy game. I want a game that is challenging and exciting. My game has a lot more traffic than vanilla Oolite. And my enemies are very tough. I've taken care in keeping a good balance. I encounter single enemies that can obliterate me in seconds.

I will add that there are several OXPs that I will not use at all because I think they make the game too easy.

Yes, my Oolite is quite different from Elite, but it is well-balanced.

I'm sure your game is exactly how you want it - and I genuinely wasn't having a go - as I said - I'm just surprised.

My game is very different from yours - I've got lots of "Pretty stuff" (stations and ships) but I don't think my game is any harder or easier than the vanilla game - however, I make it very hard for myself - because (having reached Elite in the C64, Amiga and original PC DOS version) I'm trying to make as much money as possible without killing anybody...

Therefore I have an iron-assed Cobra Mk. III, 60,000Cr in the bank but only 16 kills... Why, because if attacked I run and if cornered, I shoot, hopefully only wound or drive off and then run away - those 16 kills have been where the pirate(s) wouldn't leave me alone and have not been dissuaded from attacking me and have sadly gone from plasma venting to boom in a single press of Mil laser. I carry Mil lasers because it's the fastest way to get pirates to start venting plasma and to make them stop attacking you when cornered. Because of the way I play the game - I therefore use "Save Anywhere" (which is why I can't upgrade to the latest Oolite) because I rarely use the main stations. (I also stay in the space lane and use TAF rather than Torus when I do visit the main stations because if it's good enough for the NPCs it's good enough for me...)

Of course I'd dearly love a cloak, because that would be the ultimate "run away" tool, but I'll never get offered the mission, because I'll never have enough kills - but that's my choice...

DaddyHoggy wrote:

Of course I'd dearly love a cloak, because that would be the ultimate "run away" tool, but I'll never get offered the mission, because I'll never have enough kills - but that's my choice...

Never say never.
You're packing Mil lasers, and as you said yourself, there's some fearless pirates (and Thargs) that flat refuse to disengage and force you to kill them.
You'll get there, it'll simply be the slow and steady route.

My income is mostly bounties and stolen cargo. I steal from anybody, unless police are around. Sometimes I scoop a whole fifty tons on one jump...

In C64 Elite I did something, forget what, to get 100 000 credits or something like that.

Now, with passenger runs and decent trading prospects and Random Hits there's no need to cheat, even if you accidentally get Offender or Fugitive.

Go to one end of Galaxy. Hang out and do w/e til you land a fat passenger job to the other side of the Galaxy. Write down the names of all systems enroute. Start moving along the route and have space for 5 passengers - just keep picking up passengers for systems along the way or close to your end system. Will net you ~30k+ per trip and be fun and force you to get a move on with tight deliveries.

DaddyHoggy wrote:

It makes me smile (ruefully) how many players bypass the mechanisms that make the game what it is - how much money, equipment you start with. Dealing with the consequences of becoming Offender (even accidentally). Knowing you can hack your file and resisting the urge to do so...

I don't know, to each their own I guess, but it is sort of missing the point of the reason the way the game was created the way it was.

I guess I'm just really surprised - I wonder how many of the old school 80s Eliters would consider hacking their save game (other than play testing for OXP creation) - I'm hoping not many - it just feels wrong...

I have hacked my savefile before. I love how it's all in XML, a format I read well. I only "hack into GalCop's ID Database" in emergencies. By emergencies, I mean I haven't the money for fuel and a lot of my equipment is damaged. Of course, I sometimes just use Oocheat...

RyanHoots wrote:

I have hacked my savefile before. I love how it's all in XML, a format I read well.

There's something I never thought I'd see: "love" and "XML" in the same sentence.