[Released] - Naval Torpedo
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
Of course, real life should not be taken as a basis for the game ... have I said that anywhere else before?
I think in general that weapon design, like ship design, should try to avoid pushing too many attributes too far up the line. The vanilla game options are the standard missile, the hardhead and the q-bomb (I'm not counting the energy bomb because I don't think it's part of this category of launched weapons, and it's never used against the player, either).
Missile: TL1, 30Cr
Hardhead: TL9, 350Cr
Q-bomb: TL6, 2500Cr (I'd be tempted to suggest TL12 and 5000Cr at least, myself, but that's a whole other argument)
I don't think the proposed torpedo is really in the same WMD league as the Q-bomb, so we're really just comparing it to the two missiles.
The Hardhead costs more than 10 times the standard rate, and is much harder to find. That said, it's vastly more useful, in that there's a good chance it'll hit what it's aimed at (or at least chase it over the horizon). Speed and accuracy are identical, as far as I know.
IIf the torpedo (or bolt, or Main Battle Ordnance, or whatever you want to call it) has a greater impact than a missile, and is also shielded from ECMs, that makes it substantially better than a Hardhead. All those pluses need a minus or two, at least. Slower, or less manoeuvrable, or both, would be good.
It's also worth thinking about how the player is going to encounter this, and what would be the most fun. Is it going to be launched at the player a lot? Then you'd want something that creates a few "ohcrapohcrapohcrap" moments as the player frantically tries to shoot it down before it hits. Make it too slow, or too inaccurate, and it becomes too easy to dodge: too fast, and too accurate, and it just becomes frustrating. Slower than a standard missile (maybe between 4.5 and 5.5?), but just as accurate and more persistent, might be worth trying.
Equally, if the player is going to be launching these things, then if it's too fast and too accurate it'll kill things too easily and remove a lot of the fun that way. Price and TL can be used to check these things a bit but shouldn't be relied on: money is little or no object for a lot of players, and neither is skipping a few dozen light years to pick up another batch of bangsticks. Generally speaking, for a big punch weapon, the player should have to use real skill in scoring a hit. If it's something players will use, more than be used against them, then I'd make it slow and almost no homing ability at all: dumb-fire, even. You point it and shoot it and it goes in a straight line until it hits something.
This second option sound more interesting to me, I think: a big slug to punt out at the Thargoid capital ships in the hope of taking them out. A bug-slug. As to why it has no homing ability, if this option is preferred, the handwavium could be that the Navy fear further advances in Thargoid ECM technology – so they've made a missile which can't be ECM'd because there's no electronic guidance system to fool. The guidance system is the hand and the eye of the poor sap pilots who have to lob these things at the onrushing Thargoid battlecruisers, through a hail of plasma and slicing green death ...
Whatever you choose, though, it should be because it's more fun. The logical explanations for it all can be worked out afterwards.
I think in general that weapon design, like ship design, should try to avoid pushing too many attributes too far up the line. The vanilla game options are the standard missile, the hardhead and the q-bomb (I'm not counting the energy bomb because I don't think it's part of this category of launched weapons, and it's never used against the player, either).
Missile: TL1, 30Cr
Hardhead: TL9, 350Cr
Q-bomb: TL6, 2500Cr (I'd be tempted to suggest TL12 and 5000Cr at least, myself, but that's a whole other argument)
I don't think the proposed torpedo is really in the same WMD league as the Q-bomb, so we're really just comparing it to the two missiles.
The Hardhead costs more than 10 times the standard rate, and is much harder to find. That said, it's vastly more useful, in that there's a good chance it'll hit what it's aimed at (or at least chase it over the horizon). Speed and accuracy are identical, as far as I know.
IIf the torpedo (or bolt, or Main Battle Ordnance, or whatever you want to call it) has a greater impact than a missile, and is also shielded from ECMs, that makes it substantially better than a Hardhead. All those pluses need a minus or two, at least. Slower, or less manoeuvrable, or both, would be good.
It's also worth thinking about how the player is going to encounter this, and what would be the most fun. Is it going to be launched at the player a lot? Then you'd want something that creates a few "ohcrapohcrapohcrap" moments as the player frantically tries to shoot it down before it hits. Make it too slow, or too inaccurate, and it becomes too easy to dodge: too fast, and too accurate, and it just becomes frustrating. Slower than a standard missile (maybe between 4.5 and 5.5?), but just as accurate and more persistent, might be worth trying.
Equally, if the player is going to be launching these things, then if it's too fast and too accurate it'll kill things too easily and remove a lot of the fun that way. Price and TL can be used to check these things a bit but shouldn't be relied on: money is little or no object for a lot of players, and neither is skipping a few dozen light years to pick up another batch of bangsticks. Generally speaking, for a big punch weapon, the player should have to use real skill in scoring a hit. If it's something players will use, more than be used against them, then I'd make it slow and almost no homing ability at all: dumb-fire, even. You point it and shoot it and it goes in a straight line until it hits something.
This second option sound more interesting to me, I think: a big slug to punt out at the Thargoid capital ships in the hope of taking them out. A bug-slug. As to why it has no homing ability, if this option is preferred, the handwavium could be that the Navy fear further advances in Thargoid ECM technology – so they've made a missile which can't be ECM'd because there's no electronic guidance system to fool. The guidance system is the hand and the eye of the poor sap pilots who have to lob these things at the onrushing Thargoid battlecruisers, through a hail of plasma and slicing green death ...
Whatever you choose, though, it should be because it's more fun. The logical explanations for it all can be worked out afterwards.
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
Doesn't one of the OXPs already have a slow and dumb torpedo? Nuclear tipped I seem to recall...
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
Thanks for all the comments. I initially searched the wiki for equipment and weapons but did not search thoroughly enough (Nukes.oxp). I think my torpedo would be redundant so I'm pulling it off the production line. Very sorry to have caused such a to-do.
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
That's a shame.CaptSolo wrote:Thanks for all the comments. I initially searched the wiki for equipment and weapons but did not search thoroughly enough (Nukes.oxp). I think my torpedo would be redundant so I'm pulling it off the production line. Very sorry to have caused such a to-do.
There's a niche for almost everything in Oolite.
I'm sure, having seen the bounding conditions of what is already available you can find said niche for your missile.
How about making it into a variation of the missile seen in the last (produced) Star Wars film - you fire it into an Asteroid field and it detonates with a very specific handwavium shock pulse that is designed to fracture large asteroids into manageable sized splinters without imparting them with unwanted additional velocity. The perfect tool for the corporate miner with a big ship with a big hold and the ore processor fitted - rather than the one man show relying on a mining laser.
Such a detonation should (unless they're very close to the detonation point) leave ships and even escape pods complete damage free (save impact damage from shattered asteroids).
Oolite Life is now revealed hereSelezen wrote:Apparently I was having a DaddyHoggy moment.
Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
Discussions on what a torpedo would be in Oolite has been touched upon briefly before. See here.
I like the idea of a Naval Torpedo in Oolite, and I think the description I gave as an example at that time would be a good description on how they might work in Oolite. (DH may disagree, he develops the stuff, I just use them)
I like the idea of a Naval Torpedo in Oolite, and I think the description I gave as an example at that time would be a good description on how they might work in Oolite. (DH may disagree, he develops the stuff, I just use them)
Gimi wrote:If we want to make a distinction and use the term torpedo in game, then using some of the differences between a missile and a torpedo in real life, (moves slower, search patterns, lingering even, sub-munitions in some cases, long endurance, and so on) makes sense. So a missile with long endurance, hyperspace capable (one jump) but slow, etc could be an idea.
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
I don't necessarily disagree - and I no longer work with them - having moved into Academia 3 yrs ago (to put something back in).
Interestingly enough - your quote could be used to describe almost exactly a variant of the Storm Shadow Missile from MBDA - originally proposed for FOAS (now cancelled) by replacing the BROACH warhead with a clutch of Hellfire/Brimstone missiles...
Funny old thing war...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_Shadow
Interestingly enough - your quote could be used to describe almost exactly a variant of the Storm Shadow Missile from MBDA - originally proposed for FOAS (now cancelled) by replacing the BROACH warhead with a clutch of Hellfire/Brimstone missiles...
Funny old thing war...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_Shadow
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
I don't think my wife got wind of this debate, but she presented me with this mug today, as a not-really-Father's-Day-present-because-you're-a-grumpy-old-man-who-doesn't-believe-in-such-commercially-driven-tosh present.
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
dude, just cos we blather our opinions doesn't in any way make your efforts worthless. at the very least you'll get practice doing OXPs, and going up the scale people will like it and download it, or suggest further tweak and enhancements (like DH's) ~ maybe the torp could be made to EMP Thargons or something? Whatever happens to it, don't drop it just cos we express a few ideas or opinions that differ to what you had in mind.CaptSolo wrote:Thanks for all the comments. I initially searched the wiki for equipment and weapons but did not search thoroughly enough (Nukes.oxp). I think my torpedo would be redundant so I'm pulling it off the production line. Very sorry to have caused such a to-do.
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
KW is right CaptSolo. If you have a vision just go with it.
Even if there's a trumble in it! or a jelly baby!!
Even if there's a trumble in it! or a jelly baby!!
Take an idea from one person and twist or modify it in a different way as a return suggestion so another person can see a part of it that can apply to the oxp they are working on.
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
definitelyCommonSenseOTB wrote:KW is right CaptSolo. If you have a vision just go with it.
Even if there's a trumble in it! or a jelly baby!!
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
Absolutely right... full speed ahead, Solo... and damn the torpedoes! Heh!Smivs wrote:definitelyCommonSenseOTB wrote:KW is right CaptSolo. If you have a vision just go with it.
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
The idea was to make a unique weapon which was more efficient and destructive than the standard missile. Then up pops Nukes.oxp which basically does that and more. I dislike redundancy, however I will proceed with the project and attempt to follow in the direction provided by you great people.
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
i wonder if you could do something masty like a MIRV deployer? Launch the torp, after flight time/getting close to the target it "dies" and the death action spawns 5 or 6 normal missiles, all targetted on the victim?
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Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
To counter-offer my own suggestion of an anti-asteroid/splinter maker weapon.
How about one that is designed to "crack open" a ship?
Gives the crew chance to escape, and increases the amount of cargo that survives the destruction of the ship by.... erm... flying co-planer to the targeted ship before detonating along its axis in a shaped plasma charge that penetrates the hull of the ship in such a way that it causes a fracture that is forced open by the ships own internal gas pressure...
EDIT: The Torpedo is pre-programmed with the correct attack vector for a number of ships but will fail to detonate (and can be scooped) if fired against a non-defined target - so Python, Boa, Anaconda etc - yes. Mamba, sidewinder, etc. - no
How about one that is designed to "crack open" a ship?
Gives the crew chance to escape, and increases the amount of cargo that survives the destruction of the ship by.... erm... flying co-planer to the targeted ship before detonating along its axis in a shaped plasma charge that penetrates the hull of the ship in such a way that it causes a fracture that is forced open by the ships own internal gas pressure...
EDIT: The Torpedo is pre-programmed with the correct attack vector for a number of ships but will fail to detonate (and can be scooped) if fired against a non-defined target - so Python, Boa, Anaconda etc - yes. Mamba, sidewinder, etc. - no
Oolite Life is now revealed hereSelezen wrote:Apparently I was having a DaddyHoggy moment.
Re: [WIP] - Naval Torpedo
Hmm.DaddyHoggy wrote:To counter-offer my own suggestion of an anti-asteroid/splinter maker weapon.
How about one that is designed to "crack open" a ship?
Gives the crew chance to escape, and increases the amount of cargo that survives the destruction of the ship by.... erm... flying co-planer to the targeted ship before detonating along its axis in a shaped plasma charge that penetrates the hull of the ship in such a way that it causes a fracture that is forced open by the ships own internal gas pressure...
EDIT: The Torpedo is pre-programmed with the correct attack vector for a number of ships but will fail to detonate (and can be scooped) if fired against a non-defined target - so Python, Boa, Anaconda etc - yes. Mamba, sidewinder, etc. - no
Somehow I recognise this from RL.
You are going for "main body"
Would be great if combined with a torpedo that has a multiple missile warhead that only targets escorts. To counter this we would probably need to give NPC's decoys. Torpedo that has multiple rockets that speed away emulating the signature of a ship.
I smell an arms race brewing.
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