Oolite Bulletins

Gimi wrote:

We are pondering a standard colour for all HIMSN ships. Will come back to that.

As these are utilitarian vessels, I was kinda assuming they would just be grey, as military vessels normally are today. I don't think the navy are going to waste time and money painting ships which are just going to get shot to hell every five minutes. They would have decals and perhaps colour highlights, but I suspect the main hull by and large is just un-painted metal.

One other point, there has been mention of missiles from time to time during this discussion. Missiles, even HardHeads are pretty useless against Thargoid vessels, so my instincts are to equip the navy ships with lasers and not worry too much about missiles. The large Capital vessels (the slow and ponderous ones - carriers etc) should have plasma turrets for close-defence.

Smivs wrote:

As these are utilitarian vessels, I was kinda assuming they would just be grey, as military vessels normally are today. I don't think the navy are going to waste time and money painting ships which are just going to get shot to hell every five minutes. They would have decals and perhaps colour highlights, but I suspect the main hull by and large is just un-painted metal.

Yes, and we need something that works both unshaded and shaded.

Smivs wrote:

One other point, there has been mention of missiles from time to time during this discussion. Missiles, even HardHeads are pretty useless against Thargoid vessels, so my instincts are to equip the navy ships with lasers and not worry too much about missiles. The large Capital vessels (the slow and ponderous ones - carriers etc) should have plasma turrets for close-defence.

I have been thinking a lot about armament. I would find it pointless if a dangerous trader with a military laser could fly in and shoot up the military at will without much risk. So the armament of the navy versions of the ships will most likely not match the standard versions of the built in ship-set. But this is Classified.

Smivs wrote:

As these are utilitarian vessels, I was kinda assuming they would just be grey, as military vessels normally are today. I don't think the navy are going to waste time and money painting ships which are just going to get shot to hell every five minutes. They would have decals and perhaps colour highlights, but I suspect the main hull by and large is just un-painted metal.

That implies that their mentality would be the same as people (human people, at that) today. Warships of earlier ages were often brightly coloured, even gaudy, covered with baroque carvings and gilding. There's no need to go that far, but perhaps if a justification was needed it could be argued that the Thargoids (whose own ships are quite strikingly coloured) have instinctive responses to certain colours/patterns. There are also issues about the crews' morale, so how about flames, shark mouths, snarling faces, angry eyes? There are even practicalities about finding your way back to your carrier when your scanner is fritzed. The ships could be tiger-striped, or chequerboard black-and-yellow, or WWI dazzle-camouflage, or a variety of styles: fighters tiger-striped, carriers chequered, and so on.

Take a look at the classic SF illustrations from the old Terran Trade Authority books:
http://www.bisbos.com/rocketscience/tta/sitemap.html

That's what I think we need more of! This has been brought to you by the Campaign for a More Visually Interesting Ooniverse.

The anticipation, given the excellent ideas and thoughts contributed to this thread so far have fair got me salivating at the prospect of the release (beta or stable) of Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy oxp.

You folks are genius

Disembodied wrote:

That implies that their mentality would be the same as people (human people, at that) today. Warships of earlier ages were often brightly coloured, even gaudy, covered with baroque carvings and gilding. There's no need to go that far, but perhaps if a justification was needed it could be argued that the Thargoids (whose own ships are quite strikingly coloured) have instinctive responses to certain colours/patterns. There are also issues about the crews' morale, so how about flames, shark mouths, snarling faces, angry eyes? There are even practicalities about finding your way back to your carrier when your scanner is fritzed. The ships could be tiger-striped, or chequerboard black-and-yellow, or WWI dazzle-camouflage, or a variety of styles: fighters tiger-striped, carriers chequered, and so on.

I intend to have a standard base colour for ALL navy ships. However I expect Ships crest's, squadron markings, ensigns, flagg officers insignia etc to be fairly large and dominant to be visible in space.

We do need an art director though.

Disembodied wrote:

That's what I think we need more of! This has been brought to you by the Campaign for a More Visually Interesting Ooniverse.

Duly noted.

Smivs wrote:

One other point, there has been mention of missiles from time to time during this discussion. Missiles, even HardHeads are pretty useless against Thargoid vessels, so my instincts are to equip the navy ships with lasers and not worry too much about missiles.

One thing missiles are useful against is Thargons - a single missile will destroy one pretty much every time, they don't themselves have ECM, and they don't try to dodge it. At 350 Cr. a go it's a terrible waste for bounty hunters - but you could probably buy a few thousand of them - at which point I guess you'll get a bulk discount, too - for the cost of a military-spec Asp + equipment + training for the pilot. I'd expect the capital ships to carry an absolutely massive number of missiles for that purpose: plasma turrets are pretty ineffective even at short range against a target that small and fast.

Actually, hardheads are pretty effective against Thargoid warships if you use enough of them. Ten or so will usually overwhelm its anti-missile systems and enough will get through to destroy it. Only 3,500 Cr. too, so considerably cheaper than even a Sidewinder - the catch is that you need a pretty large ship to be able to carry the several hundred missiles needed for this to be a viable tactic ... but if you have a pretty large ship already for other purposes, why not?

cim wrote:

Actually, hardheads are pretty effective against Thargoid warships

Yep... used in conjunction with well-timed laser bursts, they do the job.

cim wrote:

Smivs wrote:

One other point, there has been mention of missiles from time to time during this discussion. Missiles, even HardHeads are pretty useless against Thargoid vessels, so my instincts are to equip the navy ships with lasers and not worry too much about missiles.

One thing missiles are useful against is Thargons - a single missile will destroy one pretty much every time, they don't themselves have ECM, and they don't try to dodge it. At 350 Cr. a go it's a terrible waste for bounty hunters - but you could probably buy a few thousand of them - at which point I guess you'll get a bulk discount, too - for the cost of a military-spec Asp + equipment + training for the pilot. I'd expect the capital ships to carry an absolutely massive number of missiles for that purpose: plasma turrets are pretty ineffective even at short range against a target that small and fast.

Actually, hardheads are pretty effective against Thargoid warships if you use enough of them. Ten or so will usually overwhelm its anti-missile systems and enough will get through to destroy it. Only 3,500 Cr. too, so considerably cheaper than even a Sidewinder - the catch is that you need a pretty large ship to be able to carry the several hundred missiles needed for this to be a viable tactic ... but if you have a pretty large ship already for other purposes, why not?

Yes! Do a search on the internet for missile tactics against capital ships (Carriers, Battle Ships, etc). You NEVER fire just one. I hope to bring tactics like that into HIMSN.oxp. Synchronised missile launches, is it possible.

Indeed, on the rare ocassions I use missiles against Thargoids I tend to fire three in quick succession, and this will often be effective. The problem is of course how many missiles the ship carries. I could see a large ship perhaps having as many as fifty.

On the subject of colours and insignia,

Smivs(to Gimi) wrote:

my personal feeling is that the ships should be fairly drab and by and large un-painted. In space there is little need to paint ships as oxidation/corrosion is not much of a problem, and as detection and targeting are done electronically camoflage is a redundant concept. Also I really couldn't justify the costs (in terms of time and money) of painting ships...they need to be produced quickly, and will be constantly in need of repair, and painting them doesn't seem sensible.

The HIMSN heavy cruiser 'Thunder Child' from Xeptatl's Sword.

Click on thumb for full-size image.

In space there is little need to paint ships as oxidation/corrosion is not much of a problem

Disagree... micrometeorites (spacedust) may well corrode hulls (I'll disregard the shields), and I tend to think that the Navy would actually want their ships looking spick and span (shipshape and bristol fashion?). D's point about colours strikes a chord with me.

Smivs wrote:

Indeed, on the rare ocassions I use missiles against Thargoids I tend to fire three in quick succession, and this will often be effective. The problem is of course how many missiles the ship carries. I could see a large ship perhaps having as many as fifty.
On the subject of colours and insignia,

Smivs(to Gimi) wrote:

my personal feeling is that the ships should be fairly drab and by and large un-painted. In space there is little need to paint ships as oxidation/corrosion is not much of a problem, and as detection and targeting are done electronically camoflage is a redundant concept. Also I really couldn't justify the costs (in terms of time and money) of painting ships...they need to be produced quickly, and will be constantly in need of repair, and painting them doesn't seem sensible.

The HIMSN heavy cruiser 'Thunder Child' from Xeptatl's Sword.

Click on thumb for full-size image.

Things keep popping up here faster than I can think things through to maintain consistency.
Ok, my take on Colour and markings. (Derived from the RN way of doing things). Nothing is final in any way what so ever. I'm just a consultant anyway.

All ships will be the same colour. Metallic Titanium is the current suggestion.
All ships will have the same ensign/Symbol somewhere on the hull.
Capital ships will have a unique crest. (If someone is willing to make them)
Squadrons from a particular capital ship will have the same crest (if possible).
Larger ships, Boas and up, will carry a Flagg Officers / Commanding Officers Pendant.
Of course, all this is dependant upon an Art Director joining us.

Smivs, I like your logo, but I do thing we need a high resolution version. Again, the Art Director should have the final word.

Smivs wrote:

Indeed, on the rare ocassions I use missiles against Thargoids I tend to fire three in quick succession, and this will often be effective. The problem is of course how many missiles the ship carries. I could see a large ship perhaps having as many as fifty.

A missile has a bounding volume of about 15 cubic oometres. A Behemoth has a bounding volume of about 50 million cubic oometres. An Asp has a bounding volume of 91 thousand cubic oometres.

I suspect it's not even worth tracking how many missiles a Behemoth actually has unless it's one that's been out there a while and cut off from resupply, given that 1,000 missiles are smaller, cheaper, and more useful than an extra Asp when it comes to carrier defense.

Gimi wrote:

Synchronised missile launches, is it possible.

Yes, but a better tactic is to stagger the launches out. Missiles will sometimes detonate when ECMd, which will take out any other missiles in the blast radius. Similarly, when the first missile hits, the blast from it may destroy the second and third missiles if they're too close. You should probably leave about a km (2 seconds or so) between launches for optimal effect.

cim wrote:

Gimi wrote:

Synchronised missile launches, is it possible.

Yes, but a better tactic is to stagger the launches out. Missiles will sometimes detonate when ECMd, which will take out any other missiles in the blast radius. Similarly, when the first missile hits, the blast from it may destroy the second and third missiles if they're too close. You should probably leave about a km (2 seconds or so) between launches for optimal effect.

I was thinking two flights approaching from different directions launching synchronised. So basically 2x2 ships performing a coordinated missile launch (I'm asking way too much here). Missiles would approach from different directions.

I like the sound of Metalic Titanium...er, what colour is that? The titanium I've actually seen is a rather dark grey with a hint of blue. Something like #6C7B8B(hex) /108 123 139(rgb)?
I have a high-res version of the HIMSN crest somewhere (500x500px if I remember correctly). I'll track it down and let you have it.

Gimi wrote:

cim wrote:

Gimi wrote:

Synchronised missile launches, is it possible.

Yes, but a better tactic is to stagger the launches out. Missiles will sometimes detonate when ECMd, which will take out any other missiles in the blast radius. Similarly, when the first missile hits, the blast from it may destroy the second and third missiles if they're too close. You should probably leave about a km (2 seconds or so) between launches for optimal effect.

I was thinking two flights approaching from different directions launching synchronised. So basically 2x2 ships performing a coordinated missile launch (I'm asking way too much here). Missiles would approach from different directions.

Ah, right. You probably still want to time the missiles to hit the target a couple of seconds apart, unless you're firing at something several km long, but that's possible, yes. (Getting the ships in the right position at the right time to fire the missiles in the first place would be less straightforward, especially in the middle of a battle, but probably still not impossible)