Progress

[metatheurgist]

Anyway, out of eight attempts:

• first failed due to not understanding 3-D coordinates
• second failed due to not realising the Cobra III cannot fit in sideways (pity: the approach was otherwise good)

At this point I started giving answers to questions like "how do I fly this ship?" beyond the literal effects of pressing particular buttons.

• next two were launch, turn around, dock, and both successful
• next one was from a "realistic" start position, and would have worked had a Cobra Mk I not chosen that moment to launch and rammed them into the side of the docking bay. Now that it's possible to save at rock hermits so fugitives have somewhere to go, I wonder if making clearance the default for main stations is sensible?
• next one failed due to lack of practice with the controls and disorientation in 3-D space

At this point I gave two key hints on how to dock safely.

• next two dockings were successful.

The successful dockings, incidentally, were all done without scraping the shields.

Maybe a link to a short video of the docking sequence in 2001 should be required viewing for new commanders?

[Disembodied]

Now that it's possible to save at rock hermits so fugitives have somewhere to go, I wonder if making clearance the default for main stations is sensible?

Sounds sensible to me. I think the main stations would have to be proactive in this regard, though: they should broadcast a message to the player on entering the aegis (perhaps not immediately: wait until they're definitely inside) that {Planetname} Traffic Authority has them on screen and that they should proceed to the navigation buoy; they recommend that weapons should be safed, etc. and cargo manifests prepared for inspection. On nearing the buoy they should receive another message telling them to signal when they are ready to begin final approach (i.e. target the station and press "d"). Players who use Docking Computers, of course, wouldn't see any of this. (And if some systems lack buoys, the instructions might need to be different too … actually, it might be possible to use these docking instructions/station communications to give some variety to different kinds of systems, generally.)

One issue might be how the game would handle a player launching, then docking again.

How's about making Lave into a proper training ground for rookies?

I think this is a very good and sensible idea. If there was somewhere outside the station where the player could go to fly around a short training course ("head towards the next green light, shoot the drone", etc.), then - even if they wiped out on the station coming back in to dock - it wouldn't be nearly such a kick in the teeth as loading up with cargo, flying all the way to another system, reaching the station, and then wiping out. I've not used Thargoid's [wiki]Lave Academy OXP[/wiki], but something like that might make sense. Or there could even be an in-station "training simulator" - so any deaths aren't "real" deaths. Perhaps the "training simulator" could use simpler graphics, too.

[JazHaz]

How's about making Lave into a proper training ground for rookies?

I think this is a very good and sensible idea. If there was somewhere outside the station where the player could go to fly around a short training course ("head towards the next green light, shoot the drone", etc.), then - even if they wiped out on the station coming back in to dock - it wouldn't be nearly such a kick in the teeth as loading up with cargo, flying all the way to another system, reaching the station, and then wiping out.

You've pretty much described the Lave Academy. Which is why I suggested including the OXP in a beginners installation of Oolite.

I've not used Thargoid's [wiki]Lave Academy OXP[/wiki], but something like that might make sense.

[cim]

Sounds sensible to me. I think the main stations would have to be proactive in this regard, though: they should broadcast a message to the player on entering the aegis (perhaps not immediately: wait until they're definitely inside) that {Planetname} Traffic Authority has them on screen and that they should proceed to the navigation buoy;

Perhaps the way to do it is to have all core stations require clearance, and strongly recommend it for OXP stations except where it would be implausible - i.e. apparently abandoned stations, Thargoid stations, etc. (If you use a docking computer, or are an NPC, then all stations core or otherwise already require clearance, even if docking clearance is disabled in settings). The Rock Hermit can have different clearance comms messages, obviously, to reflect that "traffic control" there is "someone looking out the window with a radio and a notepad"

The Fugitive restriction can then depend on whether the station might plausibly do that rather than being something special to main stations. Clearance requests are scriptable now anyway. That way the player gets used to asking, and if the station mysteriously doesn't respond to comms ... well, that's something in its own right.

Increasing the clearance window from 2 minutes to 5 minutes might also help: back when I was starting out I found 2 minutes was just too short - especially if I'd initially requested clearance from some way out from the buoy - and the need to re-request was generally while I was on final approach.

How's about making Lave into a proper training ground for rookies?

I think this is a very good and sensible idea. If there was somewhere outside the station where the player could go to fly around a short training course [...] Or there could even be an in-station "training simulator" - so any deaths aren't "real" deaths.

I think I would prefer the simulator route (or else add such training courses to almost all systems). The assertion in the original Elite manual that pilot licensing was only available at Lave is for me one of the least plausible things it said.

[Cody]

The Rock Hermit can have different clearance comms messages...

Hermits requiring clearance/having clearance messages? That doesn't really fit, in my opinion.

[Disembodied]

The Rock Hermit can have different clearance comms messages...

Hermits requiring clearance/having clearance messages? That doesn't really fit, in my opinion.

Hmm … a tricky one. Stations that require clearance should actively seek it, communicating with the player and issuing instructions (which the player can choose to ignore). For the main station, there are events to trigger these communications, e.g. entering the aegis and nearing the buoy; it would be harder for the game to spot that the player is going to dock at a Hermit. It would get annoying, I think, to dock with somewhere and then get fined, because you neglected to ask for clearance, even though they were just sitting there with no traffic and their docking bay wide open to the universe. The game needs to nudge the player to request clearance, I think.

Although … maybe this brings up another point: maybe Hermits shouldn't have open docking bays. If there was a big closed door over the docking bay, that would be a cue to the player to contact the Hermit and ask for clearance. It would mean a bit of in-game animation, at the very least, but it might be worth considering.

[cim]

The Rock Hermit can have different clearance comms messages...

Hermits requiring clearance/having clearance messages? That doesn't really fit, in my opinion.

The other consistent alternative, then, would be to make them not have docking clearance at all, since at the moment they have clearance except for the sole case of player docking manually. That would probably mean:
- docking computer doesn't work there at all
- NPCs dock without queue or separation
- NPCs launch regardless of docking queue
- launch corridor is not cleared before player launches (but 10 minute delay is shortened)
I'm not convinced by that - I think you'd end up with some seriously damaged hermits after a docking freighter tries to pull up and dodge a launching miner, and both crash into the side.

Alternatively, it might be that everyone except the player is - while bad at piloting in many respects - disciplined enough to maintain a safe docking and launching queue without any central traffic control authority. I suppose we accept that sort of thing for escort ships, though I am considering making formation flight quality depend a bit on NPC accuracy there.

The game needs to nudge the player to request clearance, I think.

I think that's true if some stations need it and some don't (there's a bit where a Hoopy Casino added by a mission - I forget which one, now - requires docking clearance if the default is on, while all others never require it). If the default is that all stations require clearance, and it's included in the early-game help, then it's just something you get used to doing. Comms from the main station welcoming the player are a separate (though interesting) idea, for me.

If we wanted a difference, we could perhaps make the organised ones sometimes have further requirements (e.g. "must safe weapons" for some systems) while the Rock Hermits were basically just making sure you didn't try to dock while someone was launching - and can't fine you if you fail to obey clearance rules, they just leave an angry message in your arrival report "What if we'd had a ship prepped for launch? You could have killed someone just flying in like that!"

[Disembodied]

The game needs to nudge the player to request clearance, I think.

I think that's true if some stations need it and some don't (there's a bit where a Hoopy Casino added by a mission - I forget which one, now - requires docking clearance if the default is on, while all others never require it). If the default is that all stations require clearance, and it's included in the early-game help, then it's just something you get used to doing. Comms from the main station welcoming the player are a separate (though interesting) idea, for me.

If we wanted a difference, we could perhaps make the organised ones sometimes have further requirements (e.g. "must safe weapons" for some systems) while the Rock Hermits were basically just making sure you didn't try to dock while someone was launching - and can't fine you if you fail to obey clearance rules, they just leave an angry message in your arrival report "What if we'd had a ship prepped for launch? You could have killed someone just flying in like that!"

OK, I think I'm coming round to the idea that docking clearance is something you need to ask for. There should be some sort of visual clue to the player, though - even just some red flashers inside the bay turning green when the player is clear to dock. Comms messages would be good, too, especially with a bit of variety for different system and station types … Svengali's PhraseGen project has some interesting potential on that front.

[Cody]

I've not often seen a rock hermit with much traffic in/out - it's only the occasional ship that docks/launches.
As it happens, I'd like to see more traffic in/out at hermits. However, do whatever works best, cim - I'll adjust to it.

[JazHaz]

I've not often seen a rock hermit with much traffic in/out - it's only the occasional ship that docks/launches.
As it happens, I'd like to see more traffic in/out at hermits. However, do whatever works best, cim - I'll adjust to it.

Don't know what happens/will happen, but I'd like the core game to look to see what dockables (OXP or core) are in the system and route traffic to them/from them automatically. It might have the effect of reducing the amount of traffic on the spacelane, and having traffic all over the system (especially if there are a lot of other stations).

In my setup I have lots of stations all over a typical system.

[Fatleaf]

I've not often seen a rock hermit with much traffic in/out - it's only the occasional ship that docks/launches.
As it happens, I'd like to see more traffic in/out at hermits. However, do whatever works best, cim - I'll adjust to it.

I'm with the Old Man with this suggestion and would also like to see a number of them with bounty on them to reflect the safe haven for pirates idea.

[JazHaz]

would also like to see a number of them with bounty on them to reflect the safe haven for pirates idea.

Hmm, would this mean that NPC bounty hunters and police ships would be attacking them consequently, especially the ones that spawn in the spacelane?

[Fatleaf]

would also like to see a number of them with bounty on them to reflect the safe haven for pirates idea.

Hmm, would this mean that NPC bounty hunters and police ships would be attacking them consequently, especially the ones that spawn in the spacelane?

Good point. To limit that you could have only the Hermits that are away from the Space Lanes that the pirates favour to avoid any unwanted contacts.

[Cody]

Unless I'm mistaken, off-lane hermits don't spawn in every system (which is good).

[Diziet Sma]

The Rock Hermit can have different clearance comms messages...

Hermits requiring clearance/having clearance messages? That doesn't really fit, in my opinion.

I dunno about that.. if I were a hermit, and somebody docked unannounced and without permission, there'd be a face full of shotgun waiting for them when they opened the door.