Oolite Bulletins

Svengali wrote:

I think it would make more sense if Oolite wouldn't duplicate 1-8, F1-F8 and NumPad. This would free lots of keys and by using user defined activation keys for GUIs and OXP equipment we would get a lot more options. I'm aware that Function keys and NumPad keys are not available on all keyboards, but if it can be set by users it's no problem.

Agreed, long-term the GUI code in general needs a rewrite. In the short-term, nafigator has provided this patch to separate out numpad and normal arrows, and make the number keys re-bindable. That will be included in the 1.79 code before release.

In other news...

We now have some new ship models and textures in the game. Many thanks to Griff and CaptSolo for producing the models and textures and letting us include them in the main distribution.

cim wrote:

We now have some new ship models and textures in the game. Many thanks to Griff and CaptSolo for producing the models and textures and letting us include them in the main distribution.

Nice!

Does that mean that the Griff set is now really complete? (At least it used to be Ahruman's policy to not incorporate the Griff models until there was a consistently designed model for each entry in Oolite's shipdata.)

cim wrote:

We now have some new ship models and textures in the game. Many thanks to Griff and CaptSolo for producing the models and textures and letting us include them in the main distribution.

Excellent!

Commander McLane wrote:

Does that mean that the Griff set is now really complete?

The Viper Interceptor is still needed (unless Griff has that in hand already).

cim wrote:

In other news...

We now have some new ship models and textures in the game.

Will the original 'Elite' style ships/models still be available, for the nostalgically impaired

Commander McLane wrote:

Does that mean that the Griff set is now really complete?

Currently included in Oolite:
- all non-carrier ships
- missiles
- barrels
- escape capsules
Not yet included in Oolite, but will be
- asteroids
- alloys
- stations
Not yet available in this style, but relatively unimportant
- buoys
- cascade mines

Smivs wrote:

Will the original 'Elite' style ships/models still be available, for the nostalgically impaired

To avoid breaking compatibility with OXPs which might be using them - and I can think of quite a few which use the model files either with or without the textures - the previous models and textures are all still in the distribution.

cim wrote:

Smivs wrote:

Will the original 'Elite' style ships/models still be available, for the nostalgically impaired

To avoid breaking compatibility with OXPs which might be using them - and I can think of quite a few which use the model files either with or without the textures - the previous models and textures are all still in the distribution.

Will there be a switch function, if you want only one or the other style?

Commander McLane wrote:

Will there be a switch function, if you want only one or the other style?

Ah - you may have misunderstood slightly. The Griff style ships will, without OXPs, be the only ones present in the game. The textures and models for the old ships will remain in the Textures and Models folders for OXPs to use but aren't referenced by the core shipdata.plist.

It would be straightforward enough for someone who wanted it to write an "old-style" shipset OXP, though, just by copying the relevant values from 1.77.1's shipdata.plist

Commander McLane wrote:

Does that mean that the Griff set is now really complete? (At least it used to be Ahruman's policy to not incorporate the Griff models until there was a consistently designed model for each entry in Oolite's shipdata.)

Actually, it used to be my policy to not incorporate Griff’s models until their materials could mostly be expressed in the new shader synthesis system, but I never finished that and no-one else has touched it. (Although as far as I recall all that’s missing is heat effects.)

cim wrote:

Commander McLane wrote:

Will there be a switch function, if you want only one or the other style?

Ah - you may have misunderstood slightly. The Griff style ships will, without OXPs, be the only ones present in the game. The textures and models for the old ships will remain in the Textures and Models folders for OXPs to use but aren't referenced by the core shipdata.plist.

It would be straightforward enough for someone who wanted it to write an "old-style" shipset OXP, though, just by copying the relevant values from 1.77.1's shipdata.plist

Okay, thanks. That's how I would have wished it.

The texture/model upgrade has been a possibility for some time, and is generally a positive and welcome move. However, I do think a couple of points are worth mooting here.
Firstly (as I hinted in my tongue-in-cheek comment above) replacing the original Elite style ships is a radical departure. The popularity of the texture replacement OXPs suggests that these old designs are still very popular even if the very basic graphics aren't. So I think a choice should be available - players should be able to select between the proposed new ships and the original set. I also think the original set should be given a makeover to bring them up to date, with better graphics and light-mapping etc. I would not favour adapting any of the existing retextures for this though as they all have distinctive features which may not have universal appeal. Instead I would favour a clean and uncluttered look, based on the minimal detailing of the original textures, but with more sophistication. A metal-plate finish, more detail on the features they already have, and a muted (but not pastelle) colour palette, augmented with a subtle light-map.
Secondly, regarding the proposed new ships, I would urge that this is not rushed. The set does need to be complete, with all the current ships and variants present, as well as all the non-ship objects. For example the current set has four Cobra 1 variants and many other ships have two or three alternative textures as well. The new set should at least have all of these.
Also, as Jens says, they need to be 'finished' in all respects.
This could even be a good oportunity to enhance the variety further with extra versions of other ships added into the mix, such as an 'Executive' Fer De Lance, a ship which should be there anyway as that is it's true role.
If we get this right it will enhance the game enormously for both the purists and those who like something different, all without OXPs. But without sufficient thought and effort, along with some consultation and user feedback there is a danger that this could ultimately be seen as a negative move by many.

cim wrote:

We now have some new ship models and textures in the game. Many thanks to Griff and CaptSolo for producing the models and textures and letting us include them in the main distribution.

Excellent news! In my opinion this was long overdue. To me, the new lasers and exhausts even seem out of place on the old ship models.

cim wrote:

Agreed, long-term the GUI code in general needs a rewrite. In the short-term, nafigator has provided this patch to separate out numpad and normal arrows, and make the number keys re-bindable. That will be included in the 1.79 code before release.

Cool. Thanks for the info, cim .-)

Smivs wrote:

So I think a choice should be available - players should be able to select between the proposed new ships and the original set.

It can be considered if the textures are there, though someone would need to volunteer to produce that set - I certainly don't have the texturing skills for it. How such a choice was presented would need some consideration: by far the easiest way to provide alternative models/textures is by OXP.

Smivs wrote:

Secondly, regarding the proposed new ships, I would urge that this is not rushed.

No risk of that. There are a lot of new bits in 1.79 which will need extensive testing and refinement before release. While a lot has already been done, we're still in the "adding features/breaking things" part of the release cycle.

The changes to AI and system population are very large in their effect - it'll still be very recognisably the same style of play with pirates and hunters and traders going about their business on the spacelanes, but there's going to be a lot of work and testing needed to make sure the game balance ends up where we want it. So there's going to be plenty of time to get everything else right, too.

Smivs wrote:

The new set should at least have all of these.

Every variant in the original which had a different texture also has a different texture now. We also now have extra variations for the Sidewinder and Viper, and there will be a considerable increase in the number of Asteroid/Boulder/Splinter variations once the various Griff models for those are included.

Smivs wrote:

This could even be a good oportunity to enhance the variety further with extra versions of other ships added into the mix, such as an 'Executive' Fer De Lance, a ship which should be there anyway as that is it's true role.

There's certainly some scope for extra variants, especially with the new roles, and the FDL is one of the most common "courier" ships. Of course, every extra variant in the core makes the job of shipset maintainers more difficult.

OK, thanks. That all sounds good

Smivs wrote:

So I think a choice should be available - players should be able to select between the proposed new ships and the original set.

OXPs are the choice mechanism. Putting a switch in the core game isn’t a solution to anything, it’s an abdication of design responsibility.