Oolite Bulletins

Are people happy with the updated map as is?

If so then tonight I will update the main version with this version. If no one says anything I will assume it is.

I will then move on to other improvements on this "development"/"bleeding edge" version.

Phantor Gorth

Seems to work almost fine on my old version of Waterfox.

1) When I change the galaxy seed - faff with the map - and then return to inspect the galaxy seed, the new map "locks" and I end up refreshing the browser page, losing the settings
2) The route plotting is either non-intuitive or is broken on my browser.

Query: for Galaxy Seed 0 0 0 0 0 1 the systems almost all seem to split into two identical ones! Any chance of explaining to this dumb pilot what's going on? (PS the only differences between the systems seems to be position, name and planet radius!) Oh! And the ones which don't do the split in 2D view, do do the splits in 3D!

Query: some end up being bracketed in green! Is there any cosmological significance to this?

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:10 am

Seems to work almost fine on my old version of Waterfox.

1) When I change the galaxy seed - faff with the map - and then return to inspect the galaxy seed, the new map "locks" and I end up refreshing the browser page, losing the settings

You need to click on the Galaxy Seed button again to close it. I could add an event to close it if you click outside of the dialog box.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:10 am

2) The route plotting is either non-intuitive or is broken on my browser.

I need more than "non-intuitive or is broken" to go on. What browser? Does left-click on a system not start a route?. Does ctrl-left-click on a system not zoom in and out? Does shift-left-click on a system not extend a route? Does shift-ctrl-left-click on the start system (green marker) or a waypoint system (purple marker) not remove legs of the route? Does clicking on the lines of a route leg not swap the route from shortest to quickest or back again?

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:10 am

Query: for Galaxy Seed 0 0 0 0 0 1 the systems almost all seem to split into two identical ones! Any chance of explaining to this dumb pilot what's going on? (PS the only differences between the systems seems to be position, name and planet radius!) Oh! And the ones which don't do the split in 2D view, do do the splits in 3D!

You would need to understand that the six numbers (a, b, c, d, e, f) are split into pairs to make 3 bigger numbers. (A = b × 256+ a, B = d × 256 + c, C = f × 256 + e) those three are used for the first system. The next big number (D) is calculated from those three (D = (A+B+C) mod 65536). This is called a Twist. The next twist uses B, C, and D to give E, and so on. Four twists give the numbers for the second system (E, F, G) (D is skipped) and then you do four more for the third system, and so on until you get all 256 systems. The bits from the 3 numbers for each system are used to calculate the position and all the other parameters of that system.

Starting with those numbers (0x0000, 0x0000, 0x0100) it isn't surprising you would get odd results. With multiple star systems on top of each other. BTW I only support moving two systems in the same location when you bring your mouse close to those systems.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:10 am

Query: some end up being bracketed in green! Is there any cosmological significance to this?

I have no idea what you mean by this.

Phantor Gorth

Edited: Forgot to say that the fourth twist is skipped.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:24 pm

I need more than "non-intuitive or is broken" to go on. What browser? Does left-click on a system not start a route?. Does ctrl-left-click on a system not zoom in and out? Does shift-left-click on a system not extend a route? Does shift-ctrl-left-click on the start system (green marker) or a waypoint system (purple marker) not remove legs of the route? Does clicking on the lines of route leg not swap the route from shortest to quickest or back again?

Browser: Waterfox "G4.1.2.1 (64-bit)" for the AppleMac



So, on the dreaded AppleMac there is just the one mouse button.

"Click" on a system does indeed start a route (I'd not realised this)

"Shift-click" on a second system does create a route to that second system

"Ctrl-click" merely summons a confusing dialogue box with seemingly inapplicable options - "Option-click" seems to have some of the desired results, but seems rather to create a new end of the route with the original end now being a waypoint. "Shift-Option-click" seems even more confusing.

Clicking on the lines of the route leg does indeed toggle between shortest & quickest

So I'm not quite seeing all of what you describe.

But - well done! Very impressive.



Edited to add:

Just tried it out on my bang-up-to-date Firefox for the AppleMac (updated yesterday):

There, the first shift click creates the route end-point, but shift-clicking a second system extends the route via the first endpoint (now a Waypoint) to that second one.

And going back to Waterfox, I get the same there too.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:24 pm

this

My aunt died this morning and I will probably be taking my venerable parentals down into London for memorial prayers tomorrow night...

Can we reschedule?

Sorry for your loss. Of course we can reschedule.

You just let me know when, when you can. I have plenty I can do in the meantime.

Paul

That's it updated. The main link (https://bit.ly/OoliteInteractiveMap2) is now been upgraded to version 0.8.1.

Phantor Gorth

Update to the development version 0.8.2

This bleeding edge version is accessed from http://www.pcooper.net/oolite2/OoliteIn ... veMap.html as before

Changes:

Features:

• Added a Size dropdown on right for changing the size of the icon based on one of the numeric properties. Although the key gives example sizes the sizes are not quantitised (put into bins) like they are with the fill and border. It varies the size from 50% of the normal size to 150% of the normal size based on the 0 to the maximum value range of the property in question. As in standard visualisation practice the area varies value not the size except for the radius where the linear proportion makes more sense. The fact that it goes from 50% to 150% instead 0% to 100% does distort this principle a bit.

Bug fixes:

• Previously if you create a route and then shift-clicked on the end point it would make the last waypoint the new end point and the leg from that system to the old end point was left as an orphan on the map. This has been fixed so shift-clicking on the end point does nothing.
• Previously if you clicked on any system that would remove the route and make that new system the start point. It was impossible to remove the start point from the map. Now if you click on the start point when that is the only selector it is now removed from the map.
• Previously if you clicked on the galaxy seed button the dialog for the seed would appear. The only way to remove the dialog was to either apply a new seed or click on the galaxy seed button again. I have added a click event to the element covering the background so if you click on that it closes the seed dialog too.

Phantor Gorth

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

I am considering what else I could add.

• [*] Add Productivity - This in theory* ranges from 96 Mcr to 62480 Mcr and would need to be put in bins (e.g. 0-5K Mcr, 5-10K Mcr, 10-15K Mcr, 15-20K Mcr, 20-30 Mcr, 40-50 Mcr and 50 Mcr+)
  [*] Add Population - This in theory* ranges from 0.1 Billion to 7.1 Billion so should again be put in bins (e.g. <1 Bil, 1-2 Bil, 2-3 Bil, 3-4 Bil, 4-5 Bil, 5-6 Bil, 6 Bil+)
  [*] Add Radius - Not sure this is much use - This in theory* ranges from 2816 Km to 6911 Km. The bins could 2K-3K, 3K-4K, 4K-5K, 5K-6K, 6K+

Done

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Click on entries in the legend to filter the systems - filtered out systems would return to default blue or have a X icon or similar.

I am thinking about this and I think if you filter out say on one of the categories in the fill keys then it returns to default blue irrespective of what border it has. This also applies the other direction when filtering out on the borders. Size isn't affected but also you cannot filter on size as the keys are not ranges just examples in the range.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Click on systems under the map - in the route list to highlight that system or on systems in search list to select it.

Slightly tricky to do highlighting as I need to find the best way to do the highlighting in what could be a busy map. Any suggestions?

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Replace the systems with icons (e.g. species and Economy icons) - This would be Fill option only and Border shape would sit over it.

This shouldn't be too difficult. I have images for species I did myself and there are images for economies and governments. I could do numbers written in the circle for tech level for fill.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Replace the systems with Clym's icons that show many different values at once.

This could be done instead of fill, border. Size would still be available. There is also the idea of putting this icon in the overlay though that may be superfluous.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Allow users to edit line and systems (properties) colours.
• Save Routes so you get the route you looked at last and to store them.

Some medium level work here but nothing outrageous but these need to be save so they stay between uses.

I also need to investigate a way to save the details (including seeds) to actual files so that uses can switch browsers or computers and can clear data in their browser without losing everything.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Place to add comments for missions and systems - I should see if the Filesystem API can let me save the data to a file.

I could put this on the left of the map. Would this be a useful addition to the tool?

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Mis-jump planning.

This is now I think this should work: Select the end point with alt/option-click instead of shift-click. Doing this would create the end point as the midpoint on the last jump of the leg. The next end point must be a system with 7 light years of that end point (mid point). You may do alt/option-click if you want to mid point that jump too and so on.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Read the log and plot route you took and display information of interest

This is where things could get very interesting. Reading the log would tell the map:

• What OXPs are installed and that would allow the map (if I make the labelling of the map a plugin system) to be able to show information appropriate for each OXP. (e.g. If you have Galactic Navy OXP installed you have the option to show the Bases and regions.)
• We should be able to tell which save game the logs apply to and so a routes history could be built for each save game and could be displayed on the map.
• Show number of kills made at a system
• Show credits earned/trades made
• Show bounties taken
• Show status changes
• Show Mission locations

This would take a lot of work to do but has lots of potentials.

Thoughts welcome.

Phantor Gorth

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

Thoughts welcome.

The one thing that immediately comes to mind is labelling.

On my Laptop there is space in the margins.

Some notes indicating how to plot a route, how to add a dogleg, would make it more likely that people would use it. I never realised without your mentioning it in a post. But might it not be better mentioned on the chart itself, where everyone would see it?

Life should return to normal on Tuesday, please God, presuming no more deaths. So I hope to be able to manage something then... if that suits you.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Click on entries in the legend to filter the systems - filtered out systems would return to default blue or have a X icon or similar.

I am thinking about this and I think if you filter out say on one of the categories in the fill keys then it returns to default blue irrespective of what border it has. This also applies the other direction when filtering out on the borders. Size isn't affected but also you cannot filter on size as the keys are not ranges just examples in the range.

Not too sure what this means. But one of the things I like is that if I select the same attribute for both fill and margin, then I get an entirely solid shape of the appropriate colour.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Click on systems under the map - in the route list to highlight that system or on systems in search list to select it.

Slightly tricky to do highlighting as I need to find the best way to do the highlighting in what could be a busy map. Any suggestions?

Not sure how necessary this is.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Replace the systems with icons (e.g. species and Economy icons) - This would be Fill option only and Border shape would sit over it.

This shouldn't be too difficult. I have images for species I did myself and there are images for economies and governments. I could do numbers written in the circle for tech level for fill.

Using your species icons might encourage their take-up by others. I would see that as good.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Replace the systems with Clym's icons that show many different values at once.

This could be done instead of fill, border. Size would still be available. There is also the idea of putting this icon in the overlay though that may be superfluous.

You need to be able to zoom in to see all the detail of his icons. This has precluded me from using his charts.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Allow users to edit line and systems (properties) colours.
• Save Routes so you get the route you looked at last and to store them.

Some medium level work here but nothing outrageous but these need to be save so they stay between uses.

I also need to investigate a way to save the details (including seeds) to actual files so that uses can switch browsers or computers and can clear data in their browser without losing everything.

Saving routes could be very useful.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Place to add comments for missions and systems - I should see if the Filesystem API can let me save the data to a file.

I could put this on the left of the map. Would this be a useful addition to the tool?

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Mis-jump planning.

This is now I think this should work: Select the end point with alt/option-click instead of shift-click. Doing this would create the end point as the midpoint on the last jump of the leg. The next end point must be a system with 7 light years of that end point (mid point). You may do alt/option-click if you want to mid point that jump too and so on.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Read the log and plot route you took and display information of interest

This is where things could get very interesting. Reading the log would tell the map:

• What OXPs are installed and that would allow the map (if I make the labelling of the map a plugin system) to be able to show information appropriate for each OXP. (e.g. If you have Galactic Navy OXP installed you have the option to show the Bases and regions.)
• We should be able to tell which save game the logs apply to and so a routes history could be built for each save game and could be displayed on the map.
• Show number of kills made at a system
• Show credits earned/trades made
• Show bounties taken
• Show status changes
• Show Mission locations

To my mind the big difference would be to make the chart dynamic. For Ascension to show up as Ascension TL 16 rather than as Sori (Famous Planets). Ditto for the Ionics modified systems. Ditto for Ribiara/Aqualina.

I had a stab at updating the wiki page: https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/List_ ... ed_in_OXPs


But adding the ability to plot the standard half-distance misjumps might be a definite bonus. Nothing else does that at the moment.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:08 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

Thoughts welcome.

The one thing that immediately comes to mind is labelling.

On my Laptop there is space in the margins.

Some notes indicating how to plot a route, how to add a dogleg, would make it more likely that people would use it. I never realised without your mentioning it in a post. But might it not be better mentioned on the chart itself, where everyone would see it?

Life should return to normal on Tuesday, please God, presuming no more deaths. So I hope to be able to manage something then... if that suits you.

Well this is a good reminder: there is a help page that pops up if press the button that says help. Only it would be useful if I had updated it.

I will do that.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:29 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Click on entries in the legend to filter the systems - filtered out systems would return to default blue or have a X icon or similar.

I am thinking about this and I think if you filter out say on one of the categories in the fill keys then it returns to default blue irrespective of what border it has. This also applies the other direction when filtering out on the borders. Size isn't affected but also you cannot filter on size as the keys are not ranges just examples in the range.

Not too sure what this means.

If you have selected say species on the fill and governments on the borders(ring) and you filter the anarchies out, then systems which are anarchies would change to the filtered out symbol and would lose their species colour. Likewise if you filtered out Human Colonists then those system would lose their government type border.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:29 pm

But one of the things I like is that if I select the same attribute for both fill and margin, then I get an entirely solid shape of the appropriate colour.

You no longer need to the select it on both as selecting that fill setting and leaving the border setting to "None" will have the same size as setting it on both. The border now cuts into it rather than adds.

Phantor Gorth

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:29 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:43 pm

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Place to add comments for missions and systems - I should see if the Filesystem API can let me save the data to a file.

I could put this on the left of the map. Would this be a useful addition to the tool?

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Mis-jump planning.

This is now I think this should work: Select the end point with alt/option-click instead of shift-click. Doing this would create the end point as the midpoint on the last jump of the leg. The next end point must be a system with 7 light years of that end point (mid point). You may do alt/option-click if you want to mid point that jump too and so on.

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:34 am

• Read the log and plot route you took and display information of interest

This is where things could get very interesting. Reading the log would tell the map:

• What OXPs are installed and that would allow the map (if I make the labelling of the map a plugin system) to be able to show information appropriate for each OXP. (e.g. If you have Galactic Navy OXP installed you have the option to show the Bases and regions.)
• We should be able to tell which save game the logs apply to and so a routes history could be built for each save game and could be displayed on the map.
• Show number of kills made at a system
• Show credits earned/trades made
• Show bounties taken
• Show status changes
• Show Mission locations

To my mind the big difference would be to make the chart dynamic. For Ascension to show up as Ascension TL 16 rather than as Sori (Famous Planets). Ditto for the Ionics modified systems. Ditto for Ribiara/Aqualina.

I had a stab at updating the wiki page: https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/List_ ... ed_in_OXPs

But adding the ability to plot the standard half-distance misjumps might be a definite bonus. Nothing else does that at the moment.

The dynamics you talk of is not something I want to build directly in but do via plugins for each OXP. The idea being is each appropriate OXP has its own plugin that I write that adds the updates to the chart data or options. The user can then select which ones you want to apply. (Later this can be done automatically by reading the logs.)

Phantor Gorth

PhantorGorth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 12:09 pm

....
This bleeding edge version is accessed from http://www.pcooper.net/oolite2/OoliteIn ... veMap.html as before
.....
Phantor Gorth

This is amazing! what a brilliant reinvention of the map Love the 3D view and its ability to rotate the star chart!