Oolite Bulletins

I actually have to agree with you there cim, the fact that the orginal 8 galaxies has so many systems that are unused in stories/OXPs means there is still a lot of room for more to go on. If it was the case that the 2048 planets in the 8 galaxies had been overused and exhausted then I would see this as more of a priority. But one of the main reasons I wanted to try to increase the amount of systems/galaxies in Oolite was to see if more varied types could be created. For example, more 'lost worlds' and cornered-off sections that perhaps could be grouped together - maybe to fight other sectionsin wars or just with more tales and stories involving them. Perhaps, as I believe FatLeaf mentioned before, one galaxy could have far more Thargoid encounters, symbolising a full-scale Thargoid invasion in that galactic sector.

Personally I think that the 8 galaxies we have at the moment are fine, but the idea of adding more simply opens up more space for OXPs, as I know certain galaxies are already teaming with OXPs. Maybe when Galaxy 8 has had more stories and OXPs written for it then there will be a greater demand. So, even though I wrote the code for the galaxies, I have to agree that this isn't a priority for the game right now, but definitely a future expansion that will probably/possibly be a requirement in the future.

EDIT: I will make a personal reminder to make sure the next OXP I write (which I've already begun preliminary work on ) will mainly take place in Galaxy 8. Look out in the future for Galactic Traitor OXP!

Any one who is going to make a mission should consult the Mission overview page to see what missions there are already in that galaxy before deciding where they want it.

cim wrote:

... and the dangerous and bottleneck-filled trail that leads from the Siege Worlds down to the trader's graveyard of Bizaar.

One of my favourite systems, is Bizaar... a right friendly bunch hang-out there!

Pleb wrote:

Other things I have managed to produce in the code are ways of circumventing the limit restrictions on travelling more than 7 light years in the game (which I don't agree with, but I managed to make it equipment dependable so that it wouldn't break the game)

I disagree with the parenthesis in the strongest possible terms. There is a reason why the development team has always had a consensus that the 7LY rule is off-limits, and this reason is that removing it will break the game no matter what. I hope that this remains a consensus. Buying an equipment poses no obstacle whatsoever, it's the pure possibility that already breaks the game. Historically, cheat OXPs have been among the most "successful" in terms of downloads, and are being recommended to new players who fall for the recommendations, and therefore never get a chance to know Oolite as it was meant.

Pleb wrote:

Other things I have managed to produce in the code are ways of circumventing the limit restrictions on travelling more than 7 light years in the game (which I don't agree with, but I managed to make it equipment dependable so that it wouldn't break the game), but I had to change the amount of fuel a player ship could hold to do this. Still, was funny to travel from one end of a galaxy to the other in one jump - the clock took ages to catch up with itself!

Overkill and why bother? The clock time needed for such long jumps would butcher any cargo contracts you're trying to do or any mission that had any sort of time limit.

Those limitations were made to help make the game interesting. Removing them serves to trivialize every location, since it's "trivial" to go from 1 place to another if you have no jump limitations. Some places should be difficult to get to...such as crossing the Great Rift in Galaxy Chart 7 or reaching Oresrati in Galaxy Chart 8. "I visited Oresrati!" should be a noteworthy accomplishment in its own right.

Okay before I continue to get falsely persecuted perhaps you can re-read exactly what I wrote:

Pleb wrote:

But as I've said before this is CHEATING and I only did it more for a laugh. I also removed the code for removing the Galactic Hyperdrive in one test version so I could jump between galaxies 9-16 quicker to take screenshots of the maps without having to get a new Galactic Hyperdrive every time! Again, this is CHEATING!!!

As you can see I said that it was possible but I never said it was right. I agree that these are features I wouldn't want in Oolite, I merely did it for my own amusement to see if it was possible. I wouldn't want them to be part of Oolite. I could understand your comments if I was suggesting these should be part of the game but I haven't. The only question I asked was to do with more than 8 galaxies and I even agreed that I didn't see why it should become a feature until we'd exhausted the original 8 galaxies...

Pleb wrote:

As you can see I said that it was possible but I never said it was right. I agree that these are features I wouldn't want in Oolite, I merely did it for my own amusement to see if it was possible. I wouldn't want them to be part of Oolite. I could understand your comments if I was suggesting these should be part of the game but I haven't. The only question I asked was to do with more than 8 galaxies and I even agreed that I didn't see why it should become a feature until we'd exhausted the original 8 galaxies...

As you can see Pleb there are quite strong emotions about certain things regarding Oolite. What might make everybody happy would be if you made a statement saying that it will never be released and will stay as a play toy for your own amusement.
I can see your point that by stating that it is a cheat you are giving ample warning to anyone who wishes to use it but the trouble with that is that once something gets used too often the game becomes boring and where do we draw the line? I also see the other point of view that they don't want to see the game ruined by overstepping certain lines that make the game what it is.
But please remember that Oolite is more than just a game it is a commOonity And sometimes to insist on ones rights at the expense of others rights doesn't make for a happy society.

Just my 0.2 worth

I think to be fair to Pleb, he always made it clear that he was just experimenting/having a bit of fun. He was emphatic about these things being cheats and never suggested that any of this was scheduled for general release. Which is good

Fatleaf wrote:

As you can see Pleb there are quite strong emotions about certain things regarding Oolite. What might make everybody happy would be if you made a statement saying that it will never be released and will stay as a play toy for your own amusement.
I can see your point that by stating that it is a cheat you are giving ample warning to anyone who wishes to use it but the trouble with that is that once something gets used too often the game becomes boring and where do we draw the line? I also see the other point of view that they don't want to see the game ruined by overstepping certain lines that make the game what it is.
But please remember that Oolite is more than just a game it is a commOonity And sometimes to insist on ones rights at the expense of others rights doesn't make for a happy society.

Just my 0.2 worth

I've never said I was going to release the coding for cheating. The only coding I've released is for the extra galaxies if people want to cheat I suggest they download the code and figure it out themselves. The only other coding I was planning on sharing is the code for alternate starting points that can added to with OXPs, but to be fair I haven't finished it and it still is in a prototype status. I would suggest to people who think I am trying to upset the staus quo that they re-read what I've written as I've never stated that anything I've been doing should be released into the main game. I even said that although I wrote the coding for extra galaxies I would object to it being put into the game until we've exhausted all original 8 galaxies and people are struggling to find systems to write new OXPs in.

Smivs wrote:

I think to be fair to Pleb, he always made it clear that he was just experimenting/having a bit of fun. He was emphatic about these things being cheats and never suggested that any of this was scheduled for general release. Which is good

Thank you Smivs. It's good to see that someone read what I wrote... To be fair I wasn't trying to start a great big argument on this, I merely originally wanted to see if people agreed with my own thinking that although there is room for expansion in the future it isn't relevent for now. If it really offends people that I've been playing with the code I will stop and merely continue writing small OXPs, I just thought others out there would like to know that more than 8 galaxies are possible...

Pleb wrote:

I've never said I was going to release the coding for cheating... It's good to see that someone read what I wrote...To be fair I wasn't trying to start a great big argument on this...If it really offends people that I've been playing with the code I will stop and merely continue writing small OXPs, I just thought others out there would like to know that more than 8 galaxies are possible...

Sorry if what I said seemed a bit sharp they were not meant to be. But please go on playing with the code It is only by testing what is possible that you find some really cool ideas and features for people to use

As a 'final statement' on the matter, I will paste a PM message I sent to someone to clarify everything that's been said.

Pleb wrote:

I appolgise for accidently leading newbies, I merely stated that to show I wasn't trying to find a way to cheat myself, merely experimenting with ideas that were never ment for public release. If anything I was defending myself to myself for cheating in the first place, but it was merely for testing purposes so I could explore the new galaxies I was generating much quicker. The code for these features would have never been released to the public, no matter what the demand. I would be offended if they changed the 7 light year limit as it would break the game. I would never under any circumstances even share what I've learnt can be manipulated in the code if I thought it would breakl the game. That's why I was very cautious about posting up the code for the new galaxies as I knew some would consider that as breaking the game, but A_C insisted it was fine and realised I was merely experimenting with an old idea thats been kicked around for a long time. I wouldn't expect that to make it into the final code, and again have no interest in publishing code that will break the game and allow people to cheat.

Commander Pleb

Now that the nastiness is behind us, I will continue to work on refining the new galaxy code if/when needed but mainly continue working on projects that do not involved breaking the code. I must stress that any requests for me to help people cheat will be ignored - however if anyone wants me to make things harder I'm all up for it!

Fatleaf wrote:

Sorry if what I said seemed a bit sharp they were not meant to be. But please go on playing with the code It is only by testing what is possible that you find some really cool ideas and features for people to use

I missed this message, no problem Fatleaf I just didn't want people to think I was promoting ideas that would break the game. I will of course continue to mess around with the code I just didn't want people thinking I was out to break the game. If anything, if someone can come up with an idea that would make it so much harder I'm for it. Hence the alternate starting positions...I will of course make a slightly easier one because people always want some kind of easier setting. But the main reason behind it is to have a start setting that makes the game extremly challenging - such as the Ironman game!

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that I believe this misunderstanding has arrisen from my suggesting that not only was it easy for me to write/take out code that would enable me to cheat, but by making it equipment dependable would not break the game. This was wrong, as it would break the game, and I should have worded it better. (Apologies for any typos/spelling errors - 3 beers and no food at lunch has affected my typing!)

Pleb wrote:

3 beers and no food at lunch has affected my typing!)

But 3 beers IS Lunch

Fatleaf wrote:

Pleb wrote:

3 beers and no food at lunch has affected my typing!)

But 3 beers IS Lunch

Haha yes also I don't like chinese. Now if we'd gone to an Indian restaurant I would have eaten much, and probably drank 5 beers...

Well I, for one, would like to see a version of the game with the 7LY limit hacked. Specifically, I'd like the Jameson Cobra 3 to have a hyperspace drive that was only capable of shorter jumps, and then to have two equipment upgrades to raise it up to the familiar 7LY limit. Pleb, I suggest you go back to that hack and, rather than setting a ludicrously high limit, see how the galactic chart connectedness breaks up with lower limits of e.g. 5, 5.5, 6 or 6.5 LY. Perhaps you could post an image of the familiar galaxy 1 chart with such a lower limit in place?