Oolite Bulletins

ralph_hh wrote:

If there is a long range radar allowing you to intercept, there should be a long range radar to allow to evade.

NPCs have had variable radar ranges for a very long time, though there were a bunch of bugs fixed in 1.80 that meant it wasn't previously working as it should.

Variable player radar range is trickier because it's tied to the torus calculation - give the player a long-range radar at the moment, and they'd be unlikely to use it to sneak around things at torus speeds, because they'd be constantly mass-locked. The work needed to separate all those bits out was partly done in 1.80, but needs finishing off.

ralph_hh wrote:

In the eyes of a player suddenly there is a ship. If that came from outer space or if it has been aiming at you for the past 1000 miles or if it headed straight onwards from the Coriolis station, the effect for the player remains the same.

I think the importance of non-player-centric design (and the compressed scale) is that we can set up a much wider variety of situations without needing to explicitly code each one.

If we take the "easy" approach - don't bother populating the system, just add a group of something just outside visual range every so often as the player travels, appropriate to the system and the player's location in it - then the player will never come across a battle between pirates and bounty hunters. Either they meet some pirates, or they meet some bounty hunters.

Okay, so we code "battle in progress" in as an option ... what about the situation where the player meets the pirates, and the bounty hunters show up later while the fight is going on? Or the situation where the fight is over and the pirates are scooping up the loose alloy plates to sell, but the player can sneak past while they're busy? Multiple situations can end up interacting - the player rescues a trader from some pirates, and they flee; later the player finds a second group of pirates scooping up some cargo. An escort of the first freighter the player attacks flees towards the witchpoint, and then the player meets them again - still out of missiles - escorting another freighter.

It's much easier to set up a bunch of AI ships programmed to act as close as we can get to how a player pirate/hunter/trader might act, and let the situations the player comes across be a consequence of that.

Cody wrote:

Anyway, does Ontilain have the longest WP/station run?

Not quite. Ontilain is second; there is one system which has the station about 30km further on.

cim wrote:

Cody wrote:

Anyway, does Ontilain have the longest WP/station run?

Not quite. Ontilain is second; there is one system which has the station about 30km further on.

<grins> Second, eh - thanks! It had to be right up there!

SteveKing wrote:

But looking at it from another angle, perhaps a way to keep NOobs 'safer' without encouraging the loophole is to have the 'ship's computer' to request a confirmation when targeting a Feudal or Anarchy system with an underpowered ship.

I'm fairly sure someone created an OXP that did something like this, not so long ago.. don't recall the name or the author, though.

Cody wrote:

Venator Dha wrote:

If I wanted to farm Thargoids, then forcing a missjump between two nearby stars is easier than going off lane hoping for an encounter - and there is a constantly renewing supply in witch space

<nods> It'd be kinda nice if the game had different behaviour in interstellar space for normal and forced misjumps.

Playing a little bit of devil's advocate - I'm wondering if forced mis-jumps and "farming Thargoids" (I love that concept ) shouldn't be classed as a 'cheat' for experienced players to boost their kill count. If that's the case, then in interstellar space, bounty can't be awarded because we only have 'grainy dashboard vid as proof' as dismb puts it. Again, not that I've got a problem with it, I've done that as well. If we have this loophole, why not an 'avoid the space lane' safety loophole for dangerous systems.

I do subscribe to the idea that going off-lane should carry some risk, eg, Deep Space Pirates, in the same way that Thargoid farming does.

SteveKing wrote:

Playing a little bit of devil's advocate - I'm wondering if forced mis-jumps and "farming Thargoids" (I love that concept ) shouldn't be classed as a 'cheat' for experienced players to boost their kill count. If that's the case, then in interstellar space, bounty can't be awarded because we only have 'grainy dashboard vid as proof' as dismb puts it. Again, not that I've got a problem with it, I've done that as well. If we have this loophole, why not an 'avoid the space lane' safety loophole for dangerous systems.

I do subscribe to the idea that going off-lane should carry some risk, eg, Deep Space Pirates, in the same way that Thargoid farming does.

For me the 'cheat/exploit/wonderful feature' (delete as appropriate) is that that the thargon drones give a kill and 50 credits even after their mothership has been destroyed. Shooting fish in a barrel could be considered hard in comparison . Removeing these rewards once the Thargoid mothership is killed should balance out fighting Thargoids.

I take that as a reward for demanding battles. Having fought a Thargoid Cruiser in the Navy OXP, I happily accept 20 kills for the drones plus the money.
If you remove the kills, maybe one could reduce the 6000 kills to Elite to just 5500? Who cares. The kill count is not a value that represents your skills. More your patience playing Oolite for endless months.

With regard to the kill count, remember that the core game hides this number and it is only observable by either installing an OXP or go digging into the player save file. So it is good to remember to keep in mind the changes we are discussing here are for the core game without OXP instillation. Which, keeping that in mind, a kill for each Thargoid drone wouldn't really be observable once you get to Elite.

But I do think that the price for Alien goods should be reflective in the difficulty they are obtained and should be raised to make the incentive to scoop them rather than destroy them.

So, what were we talking about?

Fatleaf wrote:

With regard to the kill count, remember that the core game hides this number and it is only observable by either installing an OXP or go digging into the player save file.

<scratches head> Que?

Fatleaf wrote:

With regard to the kill count, remember that the core game hides this number...

Maybe once upon a time... It's visible in the core 1.80 game on F5 screen

Venator Dha wrote:

Maybe once upon a time...

As far as I know, the kill-count has always been visible in Oolite - has been for five and a half years, anyway.

As for fragging drones: if they're inert, you should not get kills awarded for them (which I thought was the case - but I must have been dreaming).

Fatleaf wrote:

I do think that the price for Alien goods should be reflective in the difficulty they are obtained and should be raised to make the incentive to scoop them rather than destroy them.

So, what were we talking about?

Taking the opportunity to plunge off in a new direction ... yes, I have always been a bit confused at the logic underlying the prices for "Alien Items". The player is supposedly being rewarded by the Navy for bringing these in - presumably for military research - and yet there's this odd behaviour where they're cheap on Industrial worlds and expensive on Agricultural worlds. Plus, it's not uncommon to find them as NPC cargo.

Would it not be better if there was a more-or-less fixed bounty on Tharglets, the same in every system and only payable at main system stations, and that they never appear as standard cargo? If an NPC ship is carrying them, it's because they've scooped them following the destruction of a mothership.

On the last planet, I got less than 30Cr. for the alien items.
Compared to 1 kill and 50Cr. bounty, the decision is not difficult.
The native Thargoid mission is very rewarding in both time and kills. The longer you need, the more you get.

cim wrote:

I think the importance of non-player-centric design (and the compressed scale) is that we can set up a much wider variety of situations without needing to explicitly code each one.

Understood. And yes, indeed that's obviously working perfectly well!

Kill-count! Bounty/price of Thargons! Do I see two derailments of the derailment starting?

Cody wrote:

As far as I know, the kill-count has always been visible in Oolite - has been for five and a half years, anyway.

As for fragging drones: if they're inert, you should not get kills awarded for them (which I thought was the case - but I must have been dreaming).

When I first started playing Oolite the kill count was hidden and required an OXP to show it and so ever since then I have always had that OXP installed. Seems like I have missed the change!

I prefer this way, only get a kill for an active drone. Seams we both were dreaming.



<chuckles at Smivs>