Larger than 7 ly jump

[Baza]

Fighting the thargoids at qurexein. Navy fleet fighting large numbers of thargoids which then jumped out. went through wormhole left by one of the navy ships ended up in laisis 8.8 lys away!

[Nemoricus]

<rant>
Aha! I knew that the Galactic Navy was hiding superior technology!

It's all a ploy to keep us down, restricted to jumping only seven light years at a time! But now, now we know the truth! Rise up brothers and sisters and seize that which is rightfully ours!
</rant>

In all seriousness, though, this sounds like a bug in Oolite itself, not Galactic Navy.

[Frame]

Fighting the thargoids at qurexein. Navy fleet fighting large numbers of thargoids which then jumped out. went through wormhole left by one of the navy ships ended up in laisis 8.8 lys away!

Thargoids have 15 L.Y Jump Capability.. Military vessels may have the same ability...

On a scripters view.. Altering The ships fuel reserve will alter its jump ability to the 7 L.Y. border... this is hard coded behaviour..

[Lestradae]

On a scripters view.. Altering The ships fuel reserve will alter its jump ability to the 7 L.Y. border... this is hard coded behaviour..

Whoa, wait a moment!

Altering ship's fuel reserves beyond 7 LYs will give them the ability to jump beyond 7 LYs?

I thought I read (more than one time!) that a ship that had beyond 7 LYs of fuel might be able to use its Injectors for much longer, but not jump further, the 7 LYs barrier would stay in.

Please someone tell me this being not true is not the case

Bothered

L

[Nemoricus]

It's not exactly clear wording, but I think that Frame did mean that altering a ship's fuel capacity beyond 7.0 light years does not allow it to jump beyond 7.0 light years.

[Lestradae]

It's not exactly clear wording, but I think that Frame did mean that altering a ship's fuel capacity beyond 7.0 light years does not allow it to jump beyond 7.0 light years.

I really hope you're correct, as this being not so would break some important plans for my upcoming meta-oxp under Oolite 1.73+

[Frame]

Its like this...

You can have a ship set to have 15 l.y in the shipdata.plist..

However, as soon as you touch it, by altering it via a script or JS console and presumably legacy script, it will be reset to 7, while I can only vouch for happens in a java script and not a legacy script.. But the end result "should" be the same.

Looking it up .oO {great and I was doing so great with this model)...

It seems, as with this snippet of code, that any ship regardless of its initial fuel reserve have no chance of jumping further than 7.0 L.Y.

All the more Surprising that Baza managed todo so... of course I'm looking at the Trunk code.. not 1.72.2 code...

Code: Select all

- (NSArray*) nearbyDestinationsWithinRange:(double) range
{
	Random_Seed here = [self systemSeed];
	int i;
	NSMutableArray* result = [NSMutableArray arrayWithCapacity:16];

	// make list of connected systems
	for (i = 0; i < 256; i++)
	{
		double dist = distanceBetweenPlanetPositions(here.d, here.b, systems[i].d, systems[i].b);
		if ((dist > 0) && (dist <= range) && (dist <= 7.0))	// limit to systems within 7LY
		{
			[result addObject: [NSDictionary dictionaryWithObjectsAndKeys:
				StringFromRandomSeed(systems[i]), @"system_seed",
				[NSNumber numberWithDouble:dist], @"distance",
				[self getSystemName:systems[i]], @"name",
				nil]];
		}
	}
	
	return result;
}

An Overshoot of 1.8 L.Y. should be impossible

So I looked into the calculus of the distance.. this should be straightforward...

I expected Pythagoras Teaching formula here and found it..

and from reading the code there

Code: Select all

// a method used to determine interplanetary distances,
// if accurate, it has to scale distance down by a factor of 7.15:7.0
// to allow routes navigable in the original!
OOINLINE double distanceBetweenPlanetPositions ( int x1, int y1, int x2, int y2)
{
	int dx = x1 - x2;
	int dy = (y1 - y2)/2;
	int dist = sqrtf(dx*dx + dy*dy); // here's where the rounding errors come in!
	return 0.4 * dist;
}

someone left a notice that there will be rounding errors... about 7 to 7.15 ly it is possible to exceed the 7.0 LY barrier.. but not with 1.8 L.Y..

It still sounds impossible... Now if I knew what galaxy we where in... ahh 3... Funny thing though, I clicked around and 1.72.2 just quit... could be resources was stretched though. max photoshop and Oolite + Ultra edit and firefox... bound to crash...

thank god for save games

So I looked into it

i'm gonna reveal an assassins tactic here.. often missed by the green horned Jameson out there.. All muscles and no brain... only the ones with smarts knows how to.

There are two options here...

Either you carry an extra fuel tank, or you are prepared to spend some time in witchspace while collecting fuel with the Fuel collector.. the ladder one is preferred if you just picked up some hot babe and need time to work your way to the muffin... sort a like this centuries "I'm out of gas babe, we need to wait until the tow truck comes which is going to take some time.. so what do we do in the mean time", just that you are out of fuel, and you have to wait until the collector has collected some.. which in witchspace takes some time.

So we are In Qurexein, we perform a failed witchspace jump, and surprise surprise... Thargoids... Either we make them talk funny with our energy bomb (why wait for the navy), or we turn around and use our remaining fuel to outrun them, remember we need at least 50 clicks between them and us... so that is usually not an option. or we use or fuel tank, refuel and surprise surprise Laisis is in range of our 7.0 ly, now this time I had no muffin carrier on board, so i used my fuel tank...

The thargoids where coming into range... when suddenly i saw the navy jump in, and a lone ship... to far to make out... But I think i saw the ships manifest as flown by someone with the name of Baza, of course we can never be sure... So i jumped to Laisis. The benefit for this for Assisins is priceless, as you can jump beyond the 7.0 L.Y. barrier without Touching colonized space, thus masking your tracks more effectively

Cheers your most kindly Assailant,

PS. this communicate is set to explode and kill you in 1 second, as you are my mark

The last part is just for fun of course...

[DaddyHoggy]

The ability to ONLY jump a MAX of 7ly for a player is hard-coded into the game irrespective of what's in your tanks.

I'm sure A_C and Ahruman have stated this as the Law of Oolite on numerous occasions.

[Lestradae]

This is so important to me because I will give most NPC ships lots of fuel as a replacement for no torus drive in final OSE

They are supposed to be faster in combat and more difficult to lose if you have to flee a battle - remember, my meta-oxp also has much faster player ships too which you can potentially buy.

So what I need is the game using excess fuel beyond "70" (aka 7.0 LYs) to burn in the NPCs fuel injectors, but this shouldn't make them jump 20 LYs as a result, especially not with wormhole scanners ...

So, I am relieved now due to the feedback on the topic, it is as I hoped it would be, thanks guys.



L

[DaddyHoggy]

There'd be no point to those fantastic Trade and Sector maps if all those trade routes were moot because you could cross the chat in two jumps....

I'm liking your ideas for fast npc ships with injectors - doesn't there current AI mean, once engaged, npcs burn injectors until they're out of fuel?

[Lestradae]

Hey DaddyHoggy,

There'd be no point to those fantastic Trade and Sector maps if all those trade routes were moot because you could cross the chat in two jumps....

Exactly, that's why I was shocked when believing for a moment that it could be otherwise ... *phew*

I'm liking your ideas for fast npc ships with injectors - doesn't there current AI mean, once engaged, npcs burn injectors until they're out of fuel?

My observations with the thirteen ship classes that already have this feature in OSE WiP says otherwise - they actually seem to use their fuel rather wisely - to get closer faster in a fight, to flee a fight, to follow the fleeing player and, in some cases (especially traders) to get to the safety of the station/their aim faster.

It means the game gets much more fast-paced, and the other ships now are about as fast as you, the player. Works nicely so far, will know more when V0.9 is ready in two months or so - then all (then) 6.000 ships of OSE will have this feature ...

Cheers

L

[LittleBear]

@Lestrade. The only downside of giving ships lots of fuel in shipdata is that if they also have fuel injectors then they use them constantly in combat and battles with them become frustating as they are forever zipping around without them actually being able to hit you or you them. By playing about with numbers I've found more than about 30 is where they use fuel injectors a lot. Below this they tend to use injectors only when running away or dodging a q-mine. I had to keep the fuel low for hunters launched by the bars in RH (5 or less), as space is pretty crowded by the bar and those useing injectors a lot were forever crashing into each other / the enemy / the bar / mining machines! When they jump out, I take them to jump distance and then top up their tank in AI, which basically simulates an NPC saving his fuel for a jump.

[Lestradae]

Hi LittleBear,

issues like that are one reason why I chose to have people playtesting OSE before release and now also publishing the newest WiP in the Testing forum to find out how the changes I make work ingame, if there are problems or things that don't work well.

Perhaps the behaviour of NPC ships with much fuel to burn also has to do with role, speed, pitch/roll etc.. I am atm writing a program together with Katharsis that will write the new shipdata and shipyard .plists for OSE WiP V0.9 - the big jump in version number meaning that the expansion of ships into ship classes and all the specialties that will change (like the fuel thing) will expand from the first handcrafted 13 to all 600 original ships ...

After that, I will re-publish the result here, and there will be much testing while I iron out the last steps towards V1.0 and a full release. If some NPC ships get problems with too heavy or pointless injector use then, we'll see before this is published as finished oxp, and I can and will do something about it.

We will see and observe what happens when all ships can do this, also curious at the outcome

L

[Baza]

can i point out that i didn't actually jump, i used a wormhole left behind by another (i assume navy ship as all the thargoids i could see had been destroyed) ship. Therefore the amount of fuel that i had was immaterial and therefore it was either a bug in the code or the other ship managed to jump 8.8 ly?

[Frame]

can i point out that i didn't actually jump, i used a wormhole left behind by another (i assume navy ship as all the thargoids i could see had been destroyed) ship. Therefore the amount of fuel that i had was immaterial and therefore it was either a bug in the code or the other ship managed to jump 8.8 ly?

Are you sure you where at Qurexein, when you entered the wormhole. And not in interstellar space as in where Thargoids pop up, and navy comes to the rescue ?..