Realistic Shipyards V3.02 in development

[Commander Mysenses]

v.3.0 looks a lot better... I even had one system that had more than one page of ships available!
(which is unprecedented up your OXP , thus far)

As a reference point, what would a green Jameson at Lave expect to see in the shipyard?

[Commander Mysenses]

On a different tack.
Are the prices quoted in the table in the documentation average prices or fixed prices?

If they are fixed, why so?
We are traders, it would be more of a challenge if there was a price range. That way we could keep an eye out for bargains. The ships we fly could then become tradable commodities too.

Buy a cheap throwaway Asp at a high tech system and make a killing selling it at a desperate low tech system. Or buy the high spec fighter that a low tech dealer can't shift to the huddled masses, and sell it for a fat profit to some middle-aged fat-cat going through a mid-life crisis, at a tech 15 planet.

[Lestradae]

Hi Commander Mysenses!

v.3.0 looks a lot better... I even had one system that had more than one page of ships available! (which is unprecedented up your OXP , thus far)

That`s cool! I am happy that it is working now for you. I am under the impression that this one big OXP runs faster than seventy small ones, but this might be a wild guess on my part and competely wrong. So, happy with it now?

As a reference point, what would a green Jameson at Lave expect to see in the shipyard?

Hm, just anything that is in the shipdata stats list in Lave`s TL region (this list is included in the OXP and now also on the wiki - I think bulrush posted it there). For example Asp Explorers, Chameleon, Dragon Assault Craft, Icarus, Kukri Dragsters, Pythons, Taipans, Zorg Racing Sidewinder and others. It depends if you have the Lave.oxp installed - I think it changes the TL of the Lave system.

Are the prices quoted in the table in the documentation average prices or fixed prices?

They are fixed.

If they are fixed, why so?

Well, this was the whole starting point and still is the centerpiece of the OXP: You pay essentially what you get. To make everything comparable, there had to be one guideline that would completely impartial determine a ship`s worth from its stats. There is not a lot of room to play around with that, otherwise it could easily become some kind of cheat mode with which it would become more lucrative to buy and sell ships than to trade commodities or do missions.

We are traders, it would be more of a challenge if there was a price range. That way we could keep an eye out for bargains. The ships we fly could then become tradable commodities too.

Buy a cheap throwaway Asp at a high tech system and make a killing selling it at a desperate low tech system. Or buy the high spec fighter that a low tech dealer can't shift to the huddled masses, and sell it for a fat profit to some middle-aged fat-cat going through a mid-life crisis, at a tech 15 planet.

What I find interesting about the idea is that there could be occasions for especially cheap ships and especially expensive buyers (like your fat emperor guy with the midlife crisis ), similar to an idea that was tossed around about something like that with the commodity market (i.e., a planet has a medical crisis and needs Narcotica desperate, so they are now legal there and you can sell them for 110 Cr/ton). But I would make this rather the exception than the norm, why, well see above.

Do you have an idea how such an "occasion ship" scenario could work, in-game? I am open to something like that as long as it doesn`t break game balance in some way.

So, happy it`s working for you now

L

[Commander Mysenses]

this was the whole starting point and still is the centerpiece of the OXP: You pay essentially what you get. To make everything comparable, there had to be one guideline that would completely impartial determine a ship`s worth from its stats. There is not a lot of room to play around with that

Why not?
Is it "realistic" to have the same ships, the same price throughout the ooniverse? IRL new cars vary in price within quite small regions. I'm not talking about the daft pricing of native oolite, but it would be reasonable to assume vessels costing hundreds of thousands might vary by 1 - 2% between different systems (depending on the economic/tech/polical system). Yes it could make you more than a cargo run, but if you were to trade in a python to buy a bargain sporty number with bugger all cargo space, you are taking a risk that,
(1) you will find a dealer who will give you a good price within a few cargoless jumps and
(2) that you will be able to buy a replacement vessel at a reasonable price.

How hard would it be to put a 1-2% variance into the pricing structure as it stands? Hell, even 1% might be worth the risk, but not be open to abuse.

[Lestradae]

Hm,

it would be reasonable to assume vessels costing hundreds of thousands might vary by 1 - 2% between different systems (depending on the economic/tech/polical system)

I would have no problem with something in that variable span.

There are two things that stand in the way, though.

1. How? I have no idea if and how prices could be varied for the same ship, except by "cloning" it ... and I don`t even want to think about doing that with the actual shipyard.plist. That would be a nightmare. If you know about an alternative solution, tell it to me!

2. Ahruman`s 25% ship buying penalty. Yes, I know why its in there and so on, but this makes buying and selling ships as an additional venture impossible, too.

The idea to make a profit that`s about in the same region as other venues from becoming a trader in ships is a good one imo. It would add a new carrier path into the game: ship trader.

Perhaps it could be done with this idea over here:

https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... ght=garage



L

[Commander Mysenses]

I have no idea if and how prices could be varied for the same ship

Sorry, I aint no OXP'r, so I was prolly thinking way too simplistically. I just read your description on the pricing mechanism (base price +/- equipment multipliers), and thought it wouldn't be difficult to add a multiplier something like (tech level*RND function), so as to give a small variance base on the system and a small random variance.

The 25% buying penalty is a different matter. Perhaps we could lobby for a accumulative depreciation penalty... 0.5% delivery depreciation for the first couple jumps, 1% per jump for the next ten jumps, then 0.25% per jump up to a maximum of 25%[/quote]

[Lestradae]

Hye again!

Sorry, I aint no OXP'r, so I was prolly thinking way too simplistically.

And I am not a great scripter. Two months ago, I couldn`t do it at all. I just took the (rather simplistic) ball of an idea I had (with the help of a lot of feedback from posters in the forums here) and ran much farther with it than I tought I would. I have no idea how to put a variance into ship prices, I don`t even know if it is possible at all.

I just read your description on the pricing mechanism (base price +/- equipment multipliers), and thought it wouldn't be difficult to add a multiplier something like (tech level*RND function), so as to give a small variance base on the system and a small random variance.

Then it might amuse you to hear that the values were calculated by hand and entered into the shipyard.plist by hand. The formula was and is used - but outside the game!

The 25% buying penalty is a different matter. Perhaps we could lobby for a accumulative depreciation penalty... 0.5% delivery depreciation for the first couple jumps, 1% per jump for the next ten jumps, then 0.25% per jump up to a maximum of 25%

You have to lobby Ahruman for that, not me. And, Ahruman is not one who is easy to lobby

Does the OXP in its V3.0 now work OK for you? Performance working with all in?



L

[Commander Mysenses]

Does the OXP in its V3.0 now work OK for you? Performance working with all in?

I'm on a night shift atm, might sneak a bit of game time when it gets quiet after midnight (might even play using work's shiny new interactive whiteboard).

[FSOneblin]

Does the OXP in its V3.0 now work OK for you? Performance working with all in?

I'm on a night shift atm, might sneak a bit of game time when it gets quiet after midnight (might even play using work's shiny new interactive whiteboard).

Sound's fancy, I bet it is on a supermac. Now anyway, I really like this oxp, as I said before. But what would be really neat if rock hermits had a shipyard that sold "pirate addition" ships. Like blackdogs, renegade stuff (just faster, maby less cargo, better for fighting), and stuff with a skull and cross bonesWith desperate, suspicious sellers, exe.

Oh, and the parts and shipyard station is really flashy, and make's my game lag really bad, mind making it a little less, erm, fancy?


Don't panic, FSOneblin

[Lestradae]

Hi!

But what would be really neat if rock hermits had a shipyard that sold "pirate addition" ships. Like blackdogs, renegade stuff (just faster, maby less cargo, better for fighting), and stuff with a skull and cross bonesWith desperate, suspicious sellers, exe.

Well, you would have to ask the author of the Rock Hermit OXP to implement something like that - in principle, it could be done.

Oh, and the parts and shipyard station is really flashy, and make's my game lag really bad, mind making it a little less, erm, fancy?

I`m sorry, but that`s near impossible without actually making or utilising another station model, and the point of this station is that it is an alternate shipyard, which says so on the hull, has ships all around and looks the part.

If the performance lag gets too heavy there is always the option to switch the station off - if you want to, I can tell you how.

Nice to hear that you have fun with my OXP

L

[FSOneblin]

Lestradae, I pelage myself, to your teachings. Just please, tell me how to remove that Darn station thing. And Give me a cool title! And super powers! and 2 tasks!


Don't panic: FSOneblin

[Lestradae]

Good morning!

Lestradae, I pelage myself, to your teachings.

They shall provide you with many abilities some consider unnatural!

Just please, tell me how to remove that Darn station thing.

So, How-To remove the SIRF-Shipyards:

1. Open your Oolite folder.

2. Open your AddOns folder.

3. Open the Zzzz Realistic Shipyards Ultimate Edition V3.0.oxp folder.

4. Open the Config folder.

5. Open the script.plist (you might need some kind of HTML Editor for that).

6. You will find entries that basically look like that:

Code: Select all

<key>universalX</key>
        <array>
        <dict>
        <key>conditions</key>
        <array>
              <string>status_string equal STATUS_EXITING_WITCHSPACE</string>
              <string>systemTechLevel_number equal X</string>
              <string>pseudoFixedD100_number lessthan 30</string>
        </array>
        <key>do</key>
        <array>

               <string>addSystemShips: SIRF-YARDX 1 1.0</string>

        </array>
        </dict>
        </array>

... with X being a number between 0 and 14.

7. Change for all 15 similar entries the following line:

Code: Select all

<string>pseudoFixedD100_number lessthan 30</string>

... to:

Code: Select all

<string>pseudoFixedD100_number lessthan 1</string>

... save the edited script.plist and Done! No more SIRF-Shipyards - everything else still there.

And Give me a cool title!

Darth Neblin: RIIISE!

And super powers!

You can now make shipyards disappear, Darth Neblin. May the farce be with you, always.

and 2 tasks!

Oh yes indeed! I noticed that on the page:

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Ships

... the entries under "Table of ships ordered by speed.", "Table of ships ordered by cargo capacity." and the ship`s descriptions are sadly lacking. Perhaps you could take upon yourself the task (while consulting with the rest of the Oolite Community) of rectifying this wrong?

So, there you have even three tasks, to which request only one reaction is possible, young FSOneblin: It is "Yes, Master!" ... nothing else will do.

Have fun

Darth L

[Commander McLane]

7. Change for all 15 similar entries the following line:

Code: Select all

<string>pseudoFixedD100_number lessthan 30</string>

... to:

Code: Select all

<string>pseudoFixedD100_number lessthan 1</string>

If you want to eliminate them completely, this should be

Code: Select all

<string>pseudoFixedD100_number lessthan 0</string>

or you will still get it, in 1% of the systems instead of 30%.

And, without knowing the actual OXP: If the script.plist doesn't do anything else than adding the SIRFYard (which I don't know), wouldn't it be the easier and cleaner solution to delete it altogether?

[Lestradae]

If you want to eliminate them completely, this should be

Code: Select all

<string>pseudoFixedD100_number lessthan 0</string>

or you will still get it, in 1% of the systems instead of 30%.

Yep, you`re right! I was not sure if the span ran from 1 to 100 or from 0 to 99, but as the latter is usually the case with Oolite, better 0 than 1.

If the script.plist doesn't do anything else than adding the SIRFYard (which I don't know), wouldn't it be the easier and cleaner solution to delete it altogether?

It would, but isn`t.

The script.plist of V3.0 does a load of other things too which the player won`t want to have changed! So whom it concerns, please let it stay in, only set the above line to 0.

Thanks for spotting that

L

[Commander Mysenses]

Dunno if anyone will find this useful but I have made the ship data list into an Excel Workbook with the data sorted by A-Z, Price, Cargo Capacity, Speed, and Tech Level (on seperate sheets). you can upload it here,

http://cid-fd6b1ee5ee12f9e7.skydrive.li ... 20Data.xls