Station commodity market capacity

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Captain Hesperus
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Post by Captain Hesperus »

Disembodied wrote:
The Ambrosia game Escape Velocity had a nice wrinkle in it where random events would drop or raise prices of certain commodities for short periods of time on certain planets. I always enjoyed meeting other traders in the game and having them ping me with market information. A similar feature for Oolite would be a very attractive option. Do you know if the main station commodity prices are open to OXP manipulation?
See here, here or indeed do a search for 'Acts of God' or 'Acts of Giles' ;)

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Post by Disembodied »

Oho! Some good ideas there, definitely!
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Post by Commander McLane »

Disembodied wrote:
Oho! Some good ideas there, definitely!
Indeed, if I may say so. :wink: You may have noticed that you are knocking at open doors, so to speak, as far as I am concerned.

I have to confess, though, that SpecialEvents.oxp has gone nowhere, so far. And DynamicOoniverse.oxp even less so.

But I'm sure that one day I will return at least to SpecialEvents.oxp. I promise. :wink:
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Post by Disembodied »

Excellent! I'm a patient man... (leans back, steeples fingers, enters spider-like trance of waiting)
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Captain Hesperus
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Post by Captain Hesperus »

Disembodied wrote:
(leans back, steeples fingers, enters spider-like trance of waiting)
What back?
What fingers?
I thought you were a brain in a jar......

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Post by Ace Garp »

Disembodied <---

You don't happen to travel to the planet Yuggoth much?
Trade in tok'l a lot do you?

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Disembodied
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Post by Disembodied »

Captain Hesperus wrote:
What back?
What fingers?
I thought you were a brain in a jar......
I do have a transport body, you know. And "steeples manipulators" has such a clumsy ring to it.

@ Ace Garp: yup... I'm that fun guy they're always talking about. :wink:
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Post by TGHC »

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Ramirez
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Post by Ramirez »

As the subject's been raised I've been thinking about a dynamic Ooniverse and special events. Apologies in advance for the long post - if need be I'll resurrect the older threads on the same subject. So, some thoughts:

It's easy enough to pick a planet number at random using the d256_number. You can then roll a dice to decide what event you'd like to apply and then do a set specific planetinfo to replace the system's station with a clone that has an appropriate commodities plist. However, there are problems with this:
  1. I don't believe it's possible for a script to retrive system info based on the planet number, so while you can generate text that says 'Famine in system 156', you can't automatically make it say 'Famine in Isanla' for example. I've had a read through some of the latest variable-heavy OXPs (Random Hits, UPS) and I see that when it comes to names, we have to use some very convoluted and hard-coded methods in order to allow the script make use of these details. The information is all there somewhere, but we just need a way of accessing and using it.
  1. Following on, if you want to make the special events realistic then they should apply to relevant government or economy types. If the random planet is a poor industrial system it isn't really appropriate for the special event to be a bumper harvest resulting in cheap food. If you could get the planet number, find out what it's economy was and then apply the scenario, things would feel that bit more realistic.
  1. A semblance of randomness can be created by coding events for 25-30 systems in each galaxy. It's not ideal but at least the events will be relevant and the news briefings will contain planet names and other information. If the events are sufficiently spaced apart there shouldn't be too much repetition.
There is a more general approach that I think would be doable without any advanced scripting (which is lucky for me as I still haven't got to grips with javascript yet).
  1. We come up with some general scenarios that cover a range of financial implications and work out which kind of systems (government, economy, population) they would apply to. Then, assign the scenarios a range of numbers on a dice roll. For example, lets say a d100 number < 20 means Famine.
  1. When the player's in dock, roll the dice. If the resullt is less than 20 an appropriate briefing is diplayed and we do 'set: mission_specialevents FAMINE'. Also we start a timer, either using a jumpcount or a clock-based method.
  1. Set up a script to run on exiting witchspace. If mission_specialevents is FAMINE and the current system meets the right conditions (poor agricultural, whatever), do a set planetinfo and replace the station with a clone. Set planetinfo only works on the system you're in at the time, but that's OK as you can't see commodity prices from outside a system anyway.
  1. Once the timer's up the mission_specialevents variable is reset and so the planetinfo parts of the script will be inactive.
Now obviously these aren't going to be very specific events - instead the player would see market reports like: 'A widespread shortage of alloys has caused a rise in manufacturing costs across the galaxy's industrial sector. Machinery prices have been reported as high as 85c per ton in some systems.' It will then be up to the player to make the best use of this information using their own knowledge of the Ooniverse.

I guess the two approaches can be combined, i.e. have some general, market-wide events plus some hard-coded specific events. Personally I think it's more interesting having to find the opportunities yourself than being pointed towards lots of specific targets, but that's just me.

I haven't actually tried any of this out yet - so far it's just a thought experiment. However I've just taken delivery of a spanking new iMac so I'll be giving some of these ideas a go when I get the chance.
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Post by Disembodied »

I like the idea of more generalised events, alongside the planet-specific ones. We need to be careful that we're not just giving players a bunch of get-rich-quick opportunities, but we do want to offer them some sort of reward for doing a smart thing... maybe it would be possible to give players a few clues to an upcoming event, before the event hits? Like, say, have unusually low quantities of alloys for sale on Industrial worlds for X jumps/time-measure before the news of the shortage hits the airwaves? This would give the market-savvy player a clue that prices of machinery might soon take a steep jump upwards.

Are there other possible interrelated items, along the lines of alloys and machinery? Maybe ores and computers?

Perhaps if a player gets a thank-you message from a trader, it could be appended with some juicy market tip. Or passing ships could, perhaps only if you were Clean and/or had a high enough reputation, offer you market rumours from time to time (which might not always be true).
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Post by Eric Walch »

Ramirez wrote:
Set planetinfo only works on the system you're in at the time, but that's OK as you can't see commodity prices from outside a system anyway.
Sounds all interesting and doable. Only "Set planetinfo " can do more than you think. You can change any info you like. Even in an other galaxy. e.g. change the inhabitants description etc. However, this information stays persistent in your save file, even when the oxp itself is removed. For UPS I have been thinking in that direction. But, although you can change anything, you also can't read out anything as you say. Only in the system you are in you can read in some info parts. But not the inhabitants or planet info string. So there is no way to reset the old info, otherwise I already would have done it for some missions.

RamdonHits has the information hardcoded and UPS just remembers systeminfo of a system it is in for later use.

Things one can read in are e.g. economic system or government. I have been thinking about a mission were I first lower the economic state and than ask the player to help the system and after that the economics changed back to the original state.
Somehow I missed the opportunity for this when I made the slave mission. That would have been a good candidate.
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Post by Commander McLane »

Indeed, very interesting. Setting the planetinfo for the current system on EXITING_WITCHSPACE is too late, though, because the system - and notably the main station - are already created at this point.

So the main hatch is that the system has to be changed according to the special event that has occurred, before the player has jumped into it.
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