An Ethics OXP?

[Cholmondely]

I have for some time wanted to include more options for ethical choices in Oolite, and Alnivel suggested to me that an Ethics OXP might be a possible solution.



My thinking was along these lines:

•Help an escaping astro-gulag convict actually escape ( Commies)
•Help a refugee adder safely dock at the GalCop main orbital ( Refugee Adder)
•Volunteer ab initio on docking to release slaves (not be asked and then be paid as the  Illegal Goods Tweak OXP does)
DONE! Thank you, Phkb!

These can of course all be incorporated as tweaks to the original OXPs.

More could be added, but those are my thoughts so far. Does anybody else have any ideas/suggestions?

References:
 Ethics
Escaping Prisoners (in Mining Pods from Commies OXP) - issues of communication, scooping etc.
Refugee Adders (Murgh .oxp) - issues of survival, transferring food/water/medicine etc.


Updated to include more references

•And see Bicorn's comment below about Dictatorships.

[Redspear]

Does anybody else have any ideas/suggestions?

When handing over/freeing an escape pod occupant, an option to donate 100Cr to help them get started again.

• perhaps the poor adder pilot needs all the help they can get or the anaconda pilot is at a loss without the rest of the crew and escorts that were needed to pilot the ship their employers had entrusted to them.

An option to report piracy and relevant threat level

• more relevant in the 'safer' systems but would suit the idea of inter-system raiders and providing intelligence on their whereabouts

Charity markets

• that poor industrial multi-government doesn't have enough food to go around (or communist if you prefer), could you ship some over at cost and the expense of missing the chance to ship the same quantity of something more lucrative?

Emergency relief contracts

• medical supplies to the system affected by civil war - you won't get paid much and the time constraints will be tight but perhaps there a new type of reputation to be gained by running such contracts... do-gooder > philanthropist > folk hero, etc.

[Cholmondely]

Does anybody else have any ideas/suggestions?

When handing over/freeing an escape pod occupant, an option to donate 100Cr to help them get started again.

• perhaps the poor adder pilot needs all the help they can get or the anaconda pilot is at a loss without the rest of the crew and escorts that were needed to pilot the ship their employers had entrusted to them.

An option to report piracy and relevant threat level

• more relevant in the 'safer' systems but would suit the idea of inter-system raiders and providing intelligence on their whereabouts

Charity markets

• that poor industrial multi-government doesn't have enough food to go around (or communist if you prefer), could you ship some over at cost and the expense of missing the chance to ship the same quantity of something more lucrative?

Emergency relief contracts

• medical supplies to the system affected by civil war - you won't get paid much and the time constraints will be tight but perhaps there a new type of reputation to be gained by running such contracts... do-gooder > philanthropist > folk hero, etc.

Nice! Thank you!

[Switeck]

Piracy check...

Determine if the player is shooting repeatedly random non-offender/non-fugitive traders. (Different than a stray hit in a dogfight with lots of pirates + friendlies.)
Picking on a <10 credit bounty trader is also pretty mean.

Likewise, determine if they always run away from pirates fighting other traders.
It's not so much ethics as a death-wish if it's 1 trader vs a group of 5+ pirates, but when it's a freighter and 3+ escorts vs <6 pirates...your lone ship might easily turn the balance.

Generic Contraband check...

Does the player willfully trade in slaves/narcotics/firearms, outside of scooping cargo off pirates?
If they have appropriate OXPs/OXZs installed they could voluntarily give up any credits for that cargo at a main station.

[Cholmondely]

Piracy check...

Determine if the player is shooting repeatedly random non-offender/non-fugitive traders. (Different than a stray hit in a dogfight with lots of pirates + friendlies.)
Picking on a <10 credit bounty trader is also pretty mean.

Likewise, determine if they always run away from pirates fighting other traders.
It's not so much ethics as a death-wish if it's 1 trader vs a group of 5+ pirates, but when it's a freighter and 3+ escorts vs <6 pirates...your lone ship might easily turn the balance.

To me, this sounds more like a behaviour code than an OXP offering more ethical choices - or have I misunderstood? Unless you are thinking of scoring and giving an ethical rating (such as those offered by the Explorers' Club OXP or - more amusingly - by Reval's Elite Trader). I did play with the idea. But.

I'm not so keen on ethical scoring. While the choices in Oolite are more restricted than in Real Life (none of this tricky interaction with real people where there are considerably more than the 3/4 choices of BroadcastComms), there is enough complexity to render it a tough programming job. And, just because I regard something as ethical (and even if Alnivel agrees with me and I can bamboozle Cody into it), does not mean that you do. Or that Redspear does. I feel that programming all this into an OXP would be a dog's dinner!

[lecture on meta-ethics] Furthermore, my approach to ethics is decidedly deontological. (I never got into utilitarianism - although JS Mill's scheme of measuring happiness in Utils/Hedons - see his Felicific Calculus - was fascinating) Like Kant, I feel that it is important to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. I do not want to free slaves because I would get a reward for doing so. So I feel that offering brownie points (even if one could come up with an agreed yardstick for measuring ethical behaviour) is besides the point. [/lecture on meta-ethics]

Generic Contraband check...

Does the player willfully trade in slaves/narcotics/firearms, outside of scooping cargo off pirates?
If they have appropriate OXPs/OXZs installed they could voluntarily give up any credits for that cargo at a main station.

Yes. I like it. Thank you! As a further tweak to the Illegal Goods OXP, possibly! Give the money to charity (currently do-able through LitF - you can give it all away through ML's update at the Church of Giles the Creator!), or donate the weapons to GalCop for use against pirates.

[Switeck]

I was thinking more like loose estimates rather than anything certain, since ethical scoring is at best very subjective.

Something to consider is the whole point of the "Elite" rating for someone with extreme number of kills in the first place.
Is that really a fair way to measure how "good" a player is?

Or does measuring kills encourage them?

Who would even bother scooping inactive Thargons if they can get 50 credits and a kill for destroying them?
...Especially if traveling with a likely-full cargo bay anyway?

Anything that goes beyond kill-or-be-killed nearly unavoidable combats with pirates, assassins, and obviously Thargoids...is likely an improvement.
I mean this both as player choices and possible mission goals.

The player trading (or not) in slaves/narcotics/firearms fits nicely as a further tweak to the Illegal Goods OXP...not that I'm offering to code that!

[Cholmondely]

Who would even bother scooping inactive Thargons if they can get 50 credits and a kill for destroying them?
...Especially if traveling with a likely-full cargo bay anyway?

Just re-reading this. Thargons? Which are robotic drones? ..."Alien Items"

[Bicorn]

Sometimes when I see someone get shot down by the cops in a Dictatorship system and bail out in an escape pod, after scooping the pod I jump systems before handing them over at a station. I figure that if they're a genuine criminal GalCop'll deal with them, while if they were unjustly persecuted by the dictator they'll be better off on a different planet.

[Cholmondely]

Sometimes when I see someone get shot down by the cops in a Dictatorship system and bail out in an escape pod, after scooping the pod I jump systems before handing them over at a station. I figure that if they're a genuine criminal GalCop'll deal with them, while if they were unjustly persecuted by the dictator they'll be better off on a different planet.

Nice! I like it!! Well done!

Those dictatorial annihilations at the Witchpoint beacon were only just recently added in by Phkb. Do you think that they are too frequent?

[Bicorn]

Those dictatorial annihilations at the Witchpoint beacon were only just recently added in by Phkb. Do you think that they are too frequent?

They're certainly frequent, but not sure if I'd call them too frequent. They certainly do the job of setting the tone of "life in a dictatorship".