Split: Re-scaling experiment

[Redspear]

So I've created spawned a load of asteroids (not quite as dense as in the example pic above) along the start of the space lane in some systems. Rather than have the player just torus drive through all of them however, I'd like the larger asteroids (I've made several sizes) to masslock the player, so the player had some sense of flying through it rather than simply bypassing it. Frequency of occurance would be key to how fun/annoying this might be.

Asteroids are stationary of course so overtaking them, even in an anaconda, is less frustrating than overtaking a python with a cobra mk III (and with a much greater sense of scenery). The larger asteroids are also rarer so the player wouldn't necessarily always be masslocked.

Here's the problem:

Whether or not an entity masslocks the player depends upon its scan class.
Asteroids have the scan class of 'rock' - don't masslock and appear white on the scanner.

I know how to set the colour on the scanner, so if I changed the scan class then it needn't be obvious.
If I do change it however, then all of the other options would appear to either risk criminal status upon being fired at, or risk some other inappropriate interaction with non-player ships.

Is there (or could we possibly have) an option that functions as CLASS_MASSLOCK _ONLY?

Perhaps CLASS_BUOY could masslock? It wouldn't be a massive gamechanger if it did so would it?
I'll try to find it in the code when I'm more in the mood

[Switeck]

Dont know how to do this yet but other ideas include to place just one small asteroid field (but large compared to anything in standard oolite) at the witchpoint in some systems

Getting there...

Unfortunately, you may run into the game's entity limit if you go much higher or have more than 1 such asteroid cluster in a system.

[Redspear]

Unfortunately, you may run into the game's entity limit if you go much higher or have more than 1 such asteroid cluster in a system.

Both explained upthread (although I'd totally understand if you'd missed it).

• In short:
  • Unlikely - I've both increased the limit and restricted such fields to lower count systems
  • There would only be one such cluster in a system

[Redspear]

Redspear, I've been playing with SWEconomy, but it badly needs tweaking as it's representation of mining planets is poor - lots of minerals for sale but ridiculously low prices for food, etc.

If you can come up with a workable fix for this, I'd love to try incorporating it into my copy of SWEconomy!

Find the relevant economy number, planet radius or other qualifier(s) for 'mining planets'

Look for similar to below (example from demand driven economy):

Code: Select all

new_price = Math.floor(44 + 32 + demand_mod + (Math.random() * (10 - 1 + 1) - 5));
		system.mainStation.setMarketPrice("food", new_price);

new_price is just what I've called the number I'm calculating.
44 is the standard average price of food in oolite.
32 is how much more expensive (3.2Cr) I've made it on average.
demand mod was population based if I remember but you can remove that.
(Math.random() * (10 - 1 + 1) - 5) just adds a bit of random variance so that not every such system has exactly the same price.

Hope that helps.

[Cholmondely]

Redspear, I've been playing with SWEconomy, but it badly needs tweaking as it's representation of mining planets is poor - lots of minerals for sale but ridiculously low prices for food, etc.

If you can come up with a workable fix for this, I'd love to try incorporating it into my copy of SWEconomy!

Find the relevant economy number, planet radius or other qualifier(s) for 'mining planets'

Look for similar to below (example from demand driven economy):

Code: Select all

new_price = Math.floor(44 + 32 + demand_mod + (Math.random() * (10 - 1 + 1) - 5));
		system.mainStation.setMarketPrice("food", new_price);

new_price is just what I've called the number I'm calculating.
44 is the standard average price of food in oolite.
32 is how much more expensive (3.2Cr) I've made it on average.
demand mod was population based if I remember but you can remove that.
(Math.random() * (10 - 1 + 1) - 5) just adds a bit of random variance so that not every such system has exactly the same price.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for this. I'll try tweaking eventually - but, alas, am currently working my way up to G7 with a new Jameson to test DGill's expansion of the Feudal States OXP to G7/8. I'm hoping to meet His Serene Highness, the Ruhtinas Mika Spara in Onormala...

[Redspear]

Based on ideas expressed previously, an attempt to illustrate possibilities around system variance given more space to play with.

Imagine if different economies existed in markedly different circumstances, not for more realism but rather for more fun.
With that in mind I present:

Lave in various guises.

Inner Planet - very small, rocky, no population on surface, poor industrial outpost




Near Edge of Habitable Zone - small, dusty, mainly industrial




'Goldilocks' Zone - medium, as we know it, rich agricultural




Far Edge of Habitable Zone - large, dusty, mainly agricultural




Near Outer Planet- huge, gas dwarf, average industrial outpost




Far Outer Planet - very large, ice giant, rich industrial outpost




This is with 2023 code, so I might be able to improve upon it but that's about as far as I can stretch it without problems.

What makes it markedly differnt from the base game is that in each case the sun (and to a lesser extent the planets) are huge. You could fake similar playing with sun distance in the base game but it would hold up poorly as you explored the system.

[Cholmondely]

Impressive, Sir!

One presumes that the secondary planets would have smaller populations - and this smaller markets (demand & supply).

How long does it take in real time to fly from one to another? In Strangers World it can take 20-30 minutes.

[Redspear]

Thanks.

Although there is plenty of room for other planets, my current thinking is that they are not desirable. Think of them as currently orbiting on the far side of the sun if you like.

By changing main planet type and distance by economy, the travelling player gets the experience of visiting markedly different planets without the need for their existing within the same system.

It is nice to see other bodies floating about however and I think I'd rather fill this role with moons.

As I've shown in other pictures, there's room to make moons really quite large and, without other planets, for them to be numerous and at more realistic distances than say Additional Planets was able/inclined to do.

If other planets were wished for then they could be added but to what end? I'm not sure that was ever adequately answered to my mind other than for cosmetic reasons, and so the moons could provide similar whilst intruding less upon the illusion of approximating realistic scale.

One could oxp however one wished of course but these would (for me at least) be core changes.

Travel times remain comparable to the default/vanilla game due to the torus drive tinkering that has been done. Of course, if the main planet is an outer one then expect it to take a bit longer but even ice giant to sun should be considerably shorter than the duration you mention re stranger's world.

Hope that helps and thanks for your interest.

[Cholmondely]

I’d not realised that the pictures were all of the Lave main planet! I’d presumed that they were of each planet in the Lavean solar system.

We seem not to have many detailed moon textures. Strangers World only has 6. I saw no dedicated moon textures when I broke open your additional planets oxzs.

[Redspear]

I saw no dedicated moon textures when I broke open your additional planets oxzs.

True, but if there weren't any 'additional planets' then...

Besides, if their main role is to look cool but relatively small, from a distance, then even just recolouring a small selection could easily grant a few dozen textures I suspect.

[Redspear]

How it might influence the charts

Classic start



Much of a muchness.


Rescaled Galaxy



Almost every planet is changed in size but it's mostly subtle.
That said, check out the gas dwarfs and ice giant of the industrial triad to the right and note there is approx double the size variance.

P.S. Can we not resize images on these boards anymore or have I just forgotten how?

[Cholmondely]

I saw no dedicated moon textures when I broke open your additional planets oxzs.

True, but if there weren't any 'additional planets' then...

Besides, if their main role is to look cool but relatively small, from a distance, then even just recolouring a small selection could easily grant a few dozen textures I suspect.

Just to say, Phantorgorth includes 10 lunar textures in his Deep Horizons "Systems" standard texture pack.

See here: https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/File: ... e_Pack.zip

[Redspear]

Just to say, Phantorgorth includes 10 lunar textures in his Deep Horizons "Systems" standard texture pack.

See here: https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/File: ... e_Pack.zip

Good to know, thanks.