Oolite Wiki

[hiran]

Ahem... not everything mentioned at Mediawiki seems to work where our wiki is concerned... I've utterly failed to get footnotes to operate, and when I replace one screenshot with a newer one, the old one lingers and refuses my assignment of banishment to oblivion (see http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/SOTL_Altmap and my failed attempts to replace the icons just beneath the "F6 Galaxy screen" title - if you click on the grey image you will see the yellow image which I tried to replace it with ... but it would not do so (at least not on my computer screen!).

And if you spend enough time looking around you will some rather unimpressed comments by such as Treczoks - eg "Dummy templates needed to accommodate ancient MediaWiki"...

I'm not complaining - I'm here to edit text and am not too concerned about exactly which bells and whistles the wiki is missing. I do find the inbuilt search function unhelpful, far too orthographically precise and initially only showing a small handful of pages, but am aware that better external search engines exist (which I'm unable to get to function!).

Should we get in touch with the guys hosting the site? Maybe they can tell a bit what may be going on or what may be done to overcome that issue?

[hiran]

@hiran: The new output is much better. A couple of questions/points, though:
1. In the "Warnings" section of each OXP, there is a warning if an equipment or ship item doesn't have an individual wiki (eg see first OXP "Trident Down"). I'm not sure those count as warnings, and for some OXP's that have lots of equipment items (eg "Ship Configuration") the list of warnings is huge but unnecessary.
2. There are still some OXP's that have "No wiki" when a wiki entry exists. See "Duplex Fuel Tank" or "Target Autolock Plus".
3. Feature request: An additional warning you could add is if there is a difference in the license between the manager's manifest file and the manifest in the expansion itself. For example, see "Auto-prime equipment", where the manager license is "CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0" and the expansion license is "CC-BY-SA 4.0"
4. Feature request: It would nice to have some additional columns in the OXP index list, like category, author and version. For the Equipment and Ships lists, having the originating OXP name as a column next to each entry would also be useful.
5. Please oh please can I get the index lists sorted? Pretty please?

Most of these changes are implemented. Item 2 is still on my desk.
Rather than sharing changing links to changing files, I will now try to share the folder so the link stays stable, and place changing files inside:
https://app.box.com/s/e2yqje0xyj2a0brixd4t7a4ncb0zwqun

[hiran]

2. There are still some OXP's that have "No wiki" when a wiki entry exists. See "Duplex Fuel Tank" or "Target Autolock Plus".

So the algorithm tries to find a page on the Wiki, and the URL is constructed like this:

Code: Select all

"http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/" + <name of artifact>

So the URL that is getting searched is

Code: Select all

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Duplex%20Fuel%20Tank

the Wiki responds with a 404 as that page is not found.

However the Wiki has this page:

Code: Select all

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/DuplexFuelTank_OXP

And that is exactly what Cholmondeley is mentioning time and again. How can we bridge that mismatch?
So far my idea was either to rename the page or to create a redirect page. With growing amounts of redirects the search function seems to degrade.

[Cholmondely]

2. There are still some OXP's that have "No wiki" when a wiki entry exists. See "Duplex Fuel Tank" or "Target Autolock Plus".

So the algorithm tries to find a page on the Wiki, and the URL is constructed like this:

Code: Select all

"http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/" + <name of artifact>

So the URL that is getting searched is

Code: Select all

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Duplex%20Fuel%20Tank

the Wiki responds with a 404 as that page is not found.

However the Wiki has this page:

Code: Select all

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/DuplexFuelTank_OXP

And that is exactly what Cholmondeley is mentioning time and again. How can we bridge that mismatch?
So far my idea was either to rename the page or to create a redirect page. With growing amounts of redirects the search function seems to degrade.

We could redirect, check that all links to the old page have been transferred and then delete the old page.

Problems:
1) checking and reassigning the links to the old page is not exactly exhilarating/exciting/enjoyable ...
2) the only known deleter amongst us has better things to do with his time (check the page deletions list: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php?title= ... _smw_log=1)

[phkb]

but am aware that better external search engines exist (which I'm unable to get to function!).

To get Google to just search the wiki for a word or phrase, use this format in the search bar:

Code: Select all

mysearchwords site:wiki.alioth.net

the algorithm tries to find a page on the Wiki, and the URL is constructed like this:

It might be simpler to start with what the OXP has defined in it's manifest. If there is an Information URL that has the text "wiki.alioth.net" in it, do a lookup to see if it exists. If you get a hit, then the OXP has a wiki. If there's no info URL, or the lookup failed, then go to the build-your-own URL technique and try that as the last resort. I think trying to construct an algorithm that will catch every variation of the quite "adventurous" wiki naming conventions is going to lead ultimately to frustration.

What you could do is, after deciding what the ideal wiki name should be for all OXP's is to put the suggested URL into the OXP page, or compile a list of all the existing wiki URL's, as defined by the manifest files, that don't match the ideal, as a way of identifying the work to be done.

Is there a way to identify those that should stay "invisible"?

Equipment items have the "visible" property, which is probably the best thing to use for those. This property, if false, will hide the item on the F3 Outfitting page, as well as on the F5 screen if the item is actually equipped.

For ships, that's trickier. First, if anything has "is_template = yes", if can't be created directly anyway, so can be left off. Next, if a ship identifier is used anywhere in the shipdata.plist file in a "subentity_key" (see the "Broadcast Array Arm", key "broadcast_array_arm", from the "Tionisla Chronicle Array" OXP), then that's probably only part of a larger ship and can be left off as well.

After that it's much harder to define. For instance, in the "Breakable WItch Drive" OXP, it has one ship entity, named "Malfunction...Malfunction", id "btd_dummy_entity". This entity is used to pull the player ship out of torus when it's malfunctioning. It's not a ship that you will ever see in the game, but there's no way, other than by looking through the code and working out how it keeps the ship from appearing on the scanner when it's spawned (FWIW, it changes the scanner color to "clear", essentially making it invisible).

I think your best bet is to look at the "roles" property of the ship, and seeing it if includes any of the standard spawning roles ("pirate-*", "assassin-*", "trader*", etc). Also check the "scan_class" for "CLASS_STATION", as that might be a way of picking up what could spawn (the Broadcast Array from the Tionisla Chronicle Array is an example of where the "roles" property probably won't help, but the scan_class might. The scan_class might also help if it says "CLASS_NO_DRAW", as that item won't be seen in the game. scan_class = "CLASS_POLICE" should only be used for police vessels, and could pick up a bit more.

I think this is going to take a bit of refinement before we've got something robust and accurate. Sorry I can't give you a more definitive list.

[phkb]

Rather than sharing changing links to changing files, I will now try to share the folder so the link stays stable, and place changing files inside

Loving the new output!

One issue I've found. The OXP "System Feature - Rings" has the warning "License mismatch between OXP Manifest and Expansion Manager". When I look at the two manifests, it appears they're both the same: "CC-BY-SA 3.0". However, I believe the manager manifest might have a trailing space character in it, which would then throw off a straight text comparison.

[hiran]

Rather than sharing changing links to changing files, I will now try to share the folder so the link stays stable, and place changing files inside

Loving the new output!

One issue I've found. The OXP "System Feature - Rings" has the warning "License mismatch between OXP Manifest and Expansion Manager". When I look at the two manifests, it appears they're both the same: "CC-BY-SA 3.0". However, I believe the manager manifest might have a trailing space character in it, which would then throw off a straight text comparison.

I saw it and decided that is 'an issue but not for the report'. I guess we need to improve quality in the OXP registration process, then such descrepancies should go away on it's own.

But when scanning the warnings myself I also noticed the 404 errors are massive.

[hiran]

the algorithm tries to find a page on the Wiki, and the URL is constructed like this:

It might be simpler to start with what the OXP has defined in it's manifest. If there is an Information URL that has the text "wiki.alioth.net" in it, do a lookup to see if it exists. If you get a hit, then the OXP has a wiki. If there's no info URL, or the lookup failed, then go to the build-your-own URL technique and try that as the last resort. I think trying to construct an algorithm that will catch every variation of the quite "adventurous" wiki naming conventions is going to lead ultimately to frustration.

What you could do is, after deciding what the ideal wiki name should be for all OXP's is to put the suggested URL into the OXP page, or compile a list of all the existing wiki URL's, as defined by the manifest files, that don't match the ideal, as a way of identifying the work to be done.

Nice idea. I will try to implement that.

Is there a way to identify those that should stay "invisible"?

Equipment items have the "visible" property, which is probably the best thing to use for those. This property, if false, will hide the item on the F3 Outfitting page, as well as on the F5 screen if the item is actually equipped.

For ships, that's trickier. First, if anything has "is_template = yes", if can't be created directly anyway, so can be left off. Next, if a ship identifier is used anywhere in the shipdata.plist file in a "subentity_key" (see the "Broadcast Array Arm", key "broadcast_array_arm", from the "Tionisla Chronicle Array" OXP), then that's probably only part of a larger ship and can be left off as well.

After that it's much harder to define. For instance, in the "Breakable WItch Drive" OXP, it has one ship entity, named "Malfunction...Malfunction", id "btd_dummy_entity". This entity is used to pull the player ship out of torus when it's malfunctioning. It's not a ship that you will ever see in the game, but there's no way, other than by looking through the code and working out how it keeps the ship from appearing on the scanner when it's spawned (FWIW, it changes the scanner color to "clear", essentially making it invisible).

I think your best bet is to look at the "roles" property of the ship, and seeing it if includes any of the standard spawning roles ("pirate-*", "assassin-*", "trader*", etc). Also check the "scan_class" for "CLASS_STATION", as that might be a way of picking up what could spawn (the Broadcast Array from the Tionisla Chronicle Array is an example of where the "roles" property probably won't help, but the scan_class might. The scan_class might also help if it says "CLASS_NO_DRAW", as that item won't be seen in the game. scan_class = "CLASS_POLICE" should only be used for police vessels, and could pick up a bit more.

I think this is going to take a bit of refinement before we've got something robust and accurate. Sorry I can't give you a more definitive list.

Wow, this is really good information. It will take me some time to digest, but I will try that as well!

[hiran]

We could redirect, check that all links to the old page have been transferred and then delete the old page.

Problems:
1) checking and reassigning the links to the old page is not exactly exhilarating/exciting/enjoyable ...
2) the only known deleter amongst us has better things to do with his time (check the page deletions list: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php?title= ... _smw_log=1)

I believe even unwanted work gets done every now and then, but we clearly need to create awareness. It will be a long time project. Not sure though how to do it.

Another question coming up from my side: Why is he the only known deleter?
Is it that he is the only one having the balls to delete a page, or is he the only one having the privileges? If it is the latter, maybe we can create a team of people having required privilege levels?

[Cholmondely]

We could redirect, check that all links to the old page have been transferred and then delete the old page.

Problems:
1) checking and reassigning the links to the old page is not exactly exhilarating/exciting/enjoyable ...
2) the only known deleter amongst us has better things to do with his time (check the page deletions list: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php?title= ... _smw_log=1)

I believe even unwanted work gets done every now and then, but we clearly need to create awareness. It will be a long time project. Not sure though how to do it.

Another question coming up from my side: Why is he the only known deleter?
Is it that he is the only one having the balls to delete a page, or is he the only one having the privileges? If it is the latter, maybe we can create a team of people having required privilege levels?

I'm afraid that I would guess that this is the first time in years that people have bothered to spend time working on the wiki. There are three of us: your humble servant, Montana05, master of the ships & yourself - making what I do so much easier. Debresser was active in 2016 - he spent a lot of time categorising stuff, and his page creations seem mostly to have been redirects of one sort or another. Dizzy also did some work, often page creation for others and mostly around 2014. Previous to them were JazHaz and chums back around 2012.

I rather think that, thanks to your confounded index (and the plague), that I've eclipsed them all ...

By the way, I do intend to pester Maik for deletion rights - I rather feel that I might have earned my spurs by now! But at the moment I'm too involved with other stuff! Winston must also have them ... and probably Aegidian & Ahruman, and possibly Cim.

Addendum: the three most prolific manglers of the wiki seem to have been your humble servant (currently), Maik (a decade ago) and Ahruman (say 15 years ago? and little more recently) - well over a thousand edits each

[hiran]

But when scanning the warnings myself I also noticed the 404 errors are massive.

Trying to deescalate: I still scan for all artefacts' wiki pages, but only those referring to expansions will create warnings. This makes the latest warning list a lot more readable.

The source for latest versions is now also shown on the Index of Artefacts

[phkb]

I saw it and decided that is 'an issue but not for the report'. I guess we need to improve quality in the OXP registration process, then such descrepancies should go away on it's own.

After reading the values from the manifest files, doing a Trim() (or whatever the function is in the language you're using) to remove leading and trailing spaces might be easier...

[phkb]

'm afraid that I would guess that this is the first time in years that people have bothered to spend time working on the wiki.

It's certainly the first time someone has actually put thought into the content and made deliberate attempts to organise things properly!

[Cody]

It's certainly the first time someone has actually put thought into the content and made deliberate attempts to organise things properly!

Ramen! May they be touched by his noodly appendage!

[Cholmondely]

It's certainly the first time someone has actually put thought into the content and made deliberate attempts to organise things properly!

Ramen! May they be touched by his noodly appendage!

Ramen? Is that his name? But lobsters don't have noodly appendages ... or do they?