No ships at Lave - normal start

[Reval]

In Strict mode when starting a new Jameson, the Adder and Cobra Mk I are available for purchase (as indeed they should be). However, in Normal start there are no ships available at Lave.

I assume this is an oversight? Remedied easily by lowering the TL and increasing the chance for those ships in shipyard.plist...

This is what I had to do to bring the basic game back into line with classic Elite, but surely it should be the Normal mode default?

[another_commander]

Cannot reproduce in a clean 1.90 install. For me, both Normal and Strict Modes give the same ships at Lave shipyard, namely Adder and Cobra1. The moment you start adding expansions though (especially ships that add shipyard.plist entries), you start messing with the probabilities. This is why you don't get any ships at Lave in Normal mode.

[Reval]

Good to know that on a completely clean install things are as they should be.

I've added no ships, however, so it must be another OXP.

[commander_STyx2909]

Confirmed.

An OXP is certainly interfering... Damn. Which one?

I will investigate and report here.

[commander_STyx2909]

Problem identified.
It is Groovy variety pack which is causing ship for sale to disappear on Lava when starting a new commander.

[another_commander]

Any ship adding OXP that contributes ships to the shipyard can be the culprit. On my install, I have the Groovy variety pack together with the Staer9 ships, Griff's Boa Prototype, a couple of gsaghostinho's ships and Griff's new Cobra. Removing the Groovy pack does not restore the shipyard at Lave, but removing all of the above does.

[commander_STyx2909]

Any ship adding OXP that contributes ships to the shipyard can be the culprit. On my install, I have the Groovy variety pack together with the Staer9 ships, Griff's Boa Prototype, a couple of gsaghostinho's ships and Griff's new Cobra. Removing the Groovy pack does not restore the shipyard at Lave, but removing all of the above does.

dang.
I have almost no new ships added. Only extra pods. 73 OXPs anyway.

[Norby]

Just add one more oxp which contains at least one playable ship. This will change the input of the random number generator and most probably you will see some ships in the Lave shipyard.

[Reval]

With FE Ships, I eventually had to throw in the towel and stock the Lave shipyard via script.js. At least now I know the appropriate 'downgrades' will be available for a Jameson, come what other oxps may... perhaps I ought to release that script separately - call it Lave Ships or something... and of course make it non-FE (for classic Oolite only).

Edit: but, to my mind, this is really a core game issue, and should be handled by the devs for the next Oo release... Adder and Cobra 1 at Lave is, as far as I know, canonical.

[phkb]

Here's a small OXP that aims to add the expected Adder and Cobra Mk I ships to the Lave shipyard if they aren't present for whatever reason. The should be added only at the beginning of a new game, and only if they're not already there.

Link: LaveInitialShipyard.oxz.

This will only work with Oolite 1.89 and following.

Please give this a try and if it's successful in all scenarios, I'll add it to the DM.

[Reval]

Can't speak for "all scenarios", but the Adder and Cobra 1 are certainly there when I start a new commander with my usual OXP load. Thanks for this - and it really should go in with the core game on the next update, IMO...

[another_commander]

it really should go in with the core game on the next update, IMO...

I would disagree. This is not a bug, the algorithm generating shipyard ships is working as intended. I know that if you load up with OXPs there is a chance of not being able to sell the Cobra at Lave and downgrade to something else, but that's part of the deal if the player feels like stacking up their game with all sorts of additional ships.

[Cholmondely]

it really should go in with the core game on the next update, IMO...

I would disagree. This is not a bug, the algorithm generating shipyard ships is working as intended. I know that if you load up with OXPs there is a chance of not being able to sell the Cobra at Lave and downgrade to something else, but that's part of the deal if the player feels like stacking up their game with all sorts of additional ships.

Is this all because the game first selects the ships to be sold and then checks to see which are sellable at that TL?

[phkb]

s this all because the game first selects the ships to be sold and then checks to see which are sellable at that TL?

It's more that by changing the pool of ships available to be sold to the player (by adding player-flyable ship OXP's) all the random number selections that, in a vanilla game, happen to pick the Adder and Cobra Mk 1, will end up picking other ships, which may then turn out to be not available for sale at the station.


Wait... that's what you said, isn't it? I should read more slowly...

[Reval]

... will end up picking other ships, which may then turn out to be not available for sale at the station.

... or no ships at all, which is more to the point, and what prompted my OP.